R.M.F.C.’s Buz Clatworthy seemingly writes songs with natural born ease—uncomplicated and catchy. But R.M.F.C.’s debut full-length album Club Hits came together over four years through self-doubt, rethinking, pushing through and determination to keep improving. It’s been worth the wait, the record gains energy and charm from both punchy songs and subtly, each song moves R.M.F.C. forward, holding something memorable. Club Hits is a well made rock record. Club Hits is one of the essential albums of the year.
Today we’re premiering track ‘The Trap’! We also caught up with Buz to find out about it and making the album.
What’s life been like lately for you? What have you been spending a lot of your time doing? Is there anything that you’ve been really getting into?
BUZ: I haven’t been up to much exciting business lately. Haven’t played any shows for a while since members of all the bands I’m in have been away on tour in Europe with Gee Tee or Research Reactor Corp. I’ve been recording a little bit for other projects or just for fun. I’ve been really getting into Dragon’s 1983 hit “Rain” which peaked at number 2 and stayed in the Kent Music Report singles chart for 26 weeks and also reached number 88 on the United States Billboard Hot 100 charts in mid-1984.
We’re premiering song ‘The Trap’ off of your up coming album, Club Hits; what do you love most about the song?
BUZ: I like the guitar melody/solo bits.
Album art: painting by Oscar Sulich
What’s ‘The Trap’ about?
BUZ: I can’t really remember exactly what I was going on about when I wrote it now. I think it was one of the songs where I just collaged words together that sounded right more so than trying to have a considerable level of meaning behind the lyrics, it’s open ended.
I know that you took your time making the new album; how’s it feel that it’s finally finished? How did you know that it was finally finished? What was the biggest challenge you faced working on it?
BUZ: It feels really good to have it done. A lot of the time it took to make the record was circumstantial rather than making a conscious choice to take my time on it, but that gave me a chance to rethink and improve on what I otherwise wouldn’t have. In saying that, there were also a lot of times even in the late stages where I had finished writing & demoing everything and just needed to get the final recordings done but I procrastinated cause I was scared of it not turning out right. The biggest challenge was definitely writing the lyrics and recording vocals, some of the songs took me days of redoing vocal takes cause there’d be one little part where I’d make a minor & probably unnoticeable mistake like pronounce a word weirdly or sound too dramatic in my vocal delivery or something. I find doing vocals really hard cause I have to use my own voice rather than hiding behind the voice of an instrument.
Musically, do you feel any pressure to conform to what people may expect from you?
BUZ: I initially felt a little bit weird about how people would respond to the new songs cause they’re quite different to what I released when I was 17 & 18 which makes up the bulk of what people listen to of R.M.F.C having not released a whole lot since, but once the new songs started getting positive feedback at shows I felt better about that. I never necessarily felt any pressure anyway, I think the new songs are better and less derivative.
Photo: Jhonny Russell.
Your first release Hive Vol. 1 came out in 2018. Do you feel you’ve made any mistakes or had any regrets along your musical journey within these past five years? Do you try to not give them much energy or use them as fuel for your next creation?
BUZ: I try not to give them much energy anymore but I definitely have regrets with some of the creative decisions I made on the first few releases and avoid revisiting them. I also agreed to play a fair few questionable shows in the early days but I guess that’s all part of learning the ropes and figuring your shit out, especially at that age. I guess it’s also pretty normal to cringe at things you did when you were younger. 27 year old me looking back on 22 year old me and cringing at this album is not outside the realm of possibility.
What can we expect from Club Hits, thematically? Did you draw from any specific inspirations when making the record?
BUZ: There weren’t really any specific inspirations that I drew from, I wanted to just write my own record and try to just sound like R.M.F.C.
I asked Daniel Stewart [Total Control, SJN, UV Race, Distort zine etc. etc. etc.] to do a write up on the record in which he made a connection to Wire. I didn’t necessarily draw any direct inspiration from them but my obsession with Wire definitely peaked while I was making this record and I really like how they kinda defied the parameters of genre which is something I made an attempt to do with Club Hits
How did you land on the album title, Club Hits?
BUZ: It came to me in a dream where Keith Urban was being mean to me so I hit him really hard in the head with a club.
Last question, which song from the record means the most to you (and why)?
BUZ: Maybe ‘Harmless Activity’ or ‘Rock Tune’ because they feel more reflective of myself and my emotions as opposed to most of the R.M.F.C catalogue which is intentionally disconnected from that, I’ve always found it hard to make songs like that without hating them. Wistful pop songs are my favourite kind of songs and that’s how I’d describe ‘Harmless Activity’. I also really like drones and repetition in music and both of those songs reflect that.
Original photo: Jhonny Russell. Handmade collage by B.
Josh Hardy is a genuine, down-to-earth guy, who is a fanatic music lover. We’re sitting at a burger joint in Meanjin/Brisbane as the excitable member of punk bands, The Unknowns and The Chats, sips on a strawberry milkshake. He’s wearing a shirt repping power pop band The Prize, has a Nikki and the Corvettes pin on his jacket, and is showing us the records he just bought, including the Hard-Ons’ Yummy. Hardy lives and breathes music. His own, is deeply influenced by punk and rock n roll bands of the past.
Growing up on the Sunshine Coast, Hardy was introduced to bands such as The Celibate Rifles and The Hitmen, via his mum’s music collection. In high school he fell in love with Ramones, The Saints and The Scientists, learned to play guitar from a substitute teacher, and went on to form The Unknowns. Later he became friends with a fellow music nerd, Eamon Sandwith, and joined his “shed rock” band The Chats, who have become one of the biggest modern-day punk bands in this country.
Chatting with Gimmie, Hardy is thoughtful and reflective as he opens up about his experiences, both positive and challenging, with a good dose of humour. He’s not afraid to address deeper topics including the night he almost died. Hardy also shares his thoughts on the music industry, meetings with celebs both good and bad, and of writing songs about vendettas against him. We also take a deep dive into The Unknowns’ East Coast Low album.
Strap in for an honest, vulnerable, and enlightening chat!
It was really lovely meeting your parents the other night at your show. Are they really supportive of your music? Do they come to many shows?
JOSH HARDY: They come to the local shows when we play up there [Sunshine Coast]. Or they came to some bigger Chats shows down here [Brisbane], and some bigger ones Unknowns have done down here. They’re quite supportive.
My mum was one of the key people in my life that got me into the music that I love, to be honest. The [Radio] Birdman-era stuff like The Hitmen, Celibate Rifles, Beast of Bourbon, and all the Hard-Ons stuff.
In my adolescent years, I had this massive CD collection with records like Yummy and j other greatest hits a compilation of Birdman or something. Mum really helped with that because before that I didn’t really have much and would just listen to radio music.
How old were you?
JH: I was about 13. I’m originally from the Northern Beaches, and we moved to Queensland. Before that, I wasn’t really into anything. Six months after we moved up, my grandparents followed, with the stuff that mum and dad left behind. There was a big box of CDs with Celibate Rifles, and everything. I never really listened to music until I started going through that box. There was a comp with all those 60s beat bands, Hermit and the Hermits and The Shags. I love all of that too.
From there, I went down this rabbit hole of the Ramones, The Saints, all those really formative bands, I just got obsessed with it. Mum’s always been really supportive because I feel like she always loved that music too. It’s’ pretty cool to have a mum like that.
It’s very cool. Especially because a lot of people, spend their whole life, fighting against following their parents.
JH: I’m lucky to get that from my parents. At the end of the day, it didn’t stop me being a little shit when I got a bit older [laughs].
[Laughter]. What was it like growing up on the Sunny Coat?
JH: There was nothing to do with music. Every now and again I remember there was a music festival that would pop up and radio bands would come and play. There’s no real local band scene. At that stage, it was probably more the time of the hardcore straight edge stuff. It was early to mid-2000s.
North Coast Hardcore!
JH: Yeah. At my age then, I had no idea about it. By the time I got to about 15 or 16, when I was really keen to go and see shows and start bands and stuff, that had fizzled out. I feel like it was kind of at a weird time where seriously, nothing going on up the coast and and then when I was in Grade 10, I started The Unknowns with my brother.
I did’t know you had a brother.
JH: Yeah. I made him play with me, sort of against his will, to be honest with you [laughs]. He had a drum kit my parents bought him. He’d be like, “This is boring!” And, I’d tell him, just keep playing! [Laughs].
At the time, I was loving anything Ramones-style. I’d go to school trying to look like the Ramones.
Amazing!
JH: I really liked the early Scientists, and The Saints stuff. I started the band wanting to be like that whole ’77 punk-thing. But then we’d do Kinks covers and stuff, and cover The Troggs. We’d do ‘Wild thing’ [laughs].
From there, we actually met this guy, he in charge of this lawn mower shop in Nambour. He had this hook up because his wife was this lovely old music teacher called Suzanne (she had a big afro, it was amazing – she’s a Singaporean lady) and she used to do shows in pubs. She’d do her little set and then have an open mic night.
We started doing that sort of stuff; like at The Royal Mail pub. Then he finally booked us for a proper show in the front bar at the pub at 6PM on a Friday, while lingerie girls were going around doing the meat raffle. We played 3 hours for like $300. We’d do a half-arsed version of ‘Roll Over Beethoven’ and a Kinks song and then just play all our half-baked originals that we had at the time.We thought it was the sickest ever! That’s where it all sort of started.
We started coming down to Brisbane heaps to do shows, then I just moved down when I was 19 or 20—rest is history.
My parents were always supportive. My dad would come along when we were underage to those pub shows and he’d sit there while we play or just go home and then come back to be a legal guardian. It’s pretty amazing because a lot of kids wouldn’t have that. It’s really fortunate in that sense, they’re supportive of it. I’m lucky that they’re in the age bracket where into that music. They got it and didn’t turn out being narcs![laughs].
Photo: Jhonny Russell
You started out playing guitar?
JH: Yeah, I started playing when I was ten. When I moved up to up here to QLD. There was this substitute teacher that started doing guitar lessons at lunchtimes. I always wanted to learn how to play guitar, so I go in there and he brought a guitar along for me to borrow. The Troggs ‘Wild Thing’ was one of the first things I learnt on the guitar. It’s just the two-finger power chord.
When I found the Ramones, I thought, this makes so much sense now. You could write half a million songs on three chords, as long as you got a tune in your head.
Do you always want to sing?
JH: Well, in the beginning with The Unknowns, we tried out this other guy and he was a bit older and a bit of a wanker [laughs]. We were like, nah. The first ever show that we did as a band was a high school talent show. I just started singing because I had to.
How’d the talent show go?
JH: We didn’t go that good that year, but the next year we actually did it again in Grade 11. That year we came second. I still reckon we would have came first, but my brother, who’s drumming in the band, actually got suspended from school that day for getting into a fight. I thought we ripped! [laughs].
Did you you got any other lessons for guitar?
JH: Yeah, I got lessons for probably about a year, to be honest. Because at the time I also was mad about surfing. I’ve always just been into what I’m into.
That’s like me. Did you have older people around you or just your mum? I was always the youngest hanging out, so I was a punk when I was around seven. I had older heroin addict friends that were like, check out Slayer, check out this or that.
JH:Ihad a lot of older friends. I never really used to hang out with kids from school. I always had a phobia of sleeping over other people’s houses.
Same!
JH: I always used to hang out with the older dudes down at the beach. It’d range from people in their early-20s to in their mid-60s. They were my best friends, you know, like a real entry point to things for me.
Yeah. For me it was skateboarding. All the skate and surf videos had punk music at the time.
JH: Yeah, exactly. That’s how I get to know The Saints, there was this video of Michael Peterson from the Gold Coast and the song playing was ‘(I’m) Stranded’. It was around that time I started doing guitar lessons. I was like, what the fuck? I learned The Saints were from Brisbane!
I started not showing up to guitar lessons because I was surfing. If I did show up, I’d have no shoes, no shirt and no guitar. Because it was at a music shop, I’d just use a guitar from there. I lost interest because when I first went in I was really bro-ing down with the teacher, but then it got to the point where (he was a real shredder) and he’d start trying to teach me Stevie Ray Vaughan. I’d rather go surf.
I always hang out with a lot of older people though never really kids my own age. Not until I became friend with friends Eamon. Maybe one other dude that I started The Unknowns with, but that was it.
I wouldn’t trade it for the world, though, because I feel like by the time I was 18, you start realising that the dudes that would hang out at the beach all day, there’s reasons why they’re at the beach all day, and there’s a reason why they’re always drunk and always probably not the most desirable characters.
Photo: Jhonny Russell
Examples of what not to end up like!
JH: Yeah, exactly. I’m glad I got that realisation when I was 18, because I feel like you see people that only hang out with people that are their age growing up, which isn’t a bad thing, but I feel like they’re always going to have more chance of not really getting that until something bad happens or later in life.
I grew up in Toowoomba around heroin addicts and that sort of shit. So you grow up learning what not to do. These drugs are all right, but don’t do heroin and stay away from the glass pipe!
JH: Yeah, totally.
We really love your album East Coast Low. It’s a lot of fun. The songs have a familiar feel to the listener with nods to past great bands.
JH: Thank you. It’s all sort of what goes around, comes around. I feel like my songwriting really draws off the whole 60s beat thing, without realising it. You go back and listen to a lot of those bands and it’s a lot of very similar chord progressions and stuff that’s recycled.
It’s stylistically, changed a little bit.
JH: Yeah, fully. Tom (our drummer) come up with the album title, East Coast Low. I was thinking metaphorically, it’s like growing up in a rural or semi-rural area and getting the blues because there’s nothing really around, there’s not much of a scene, all the kids that are on the block don’t get the shit that you listen to, and aren’t into the shit that. The surf might be great and there’s the blue skies, but at the end of the day, no one gets you.
With the Unknown songs, they’re really about feelings. I’m much better at writing songs about how I feel and a mood then being about going and doings something. They’re expressive songs.
Listening to your songs and watching you play live, there’s definitely a good vibe. It’s really uplifting.
JH: Awww, thank you!
When we posted video of an Unknowns show we went to recently, Billy from Anti Fade Records commented that you have the best guitar faces ever!
JH: [Laughs]. Sick! Yeah. I love Billy.
I feel like The Unknowns is celebrating that expelling of energy. I’m making it fun in the process instead of being too melancholy.
I’m always a big fan of songs that sounds really happy when you first listen to it, but it’s actually about something deeper and morbid or whatever.
Let’s chat about the songs on East Coast Low. Let’s start with ‘Shot down’.
JH: That song is about a person that I knew from the coast, that we no longer keep in contact with. There’s those people that you’d meet in life… ahhh…
Toxic cunts?!
JH: Yeah, toxic cunts! Exactly. You try your best, and at the end of the day, you keep walking away and you’re like, why did I even bother with you? You’re better off just leaving it alone. I went through a stage of reconnecting with them and it went really bad. I actually went for a holiday with my girlfriend on on Straddie, I was down about it. I was like, fuck, I shouldn’t be even thinking about this. I was overthinking. I’m a bit of a stewer. The weather was so beautiful, I thought, I just need to sit down and just write something. So I sat down and it came out.
Do you know if they heard it or know it’s about them?
JH: Yeah, I think there’s a few, but I feel like it’s still subtle enough and not too pointed [laughs].I didn’t want to start any dramas.
What about ‘Dianne’?
JH: It’s basically, you’d think it’d be about a person Dianne, but it’s actually about my first experience trying Dianne sauce.
[Laughter].
Two or three years ago, I tried it and I don’t know where it was my whole life. I couldn’t believe I’d be going to pubs and never tried it until then. It’s a very New South Wales thing, I’ve heard. I tried it in the town of Laurieton. It was amazing.
It’s a very 1990s thing. Maybe they’re just still hanging on to the 90s.
JH: [Laughs]. Exactly. Yeah. I fell in love with it. I was like, you saved my life! The line that says: Adventures of Betty – that came about because when I first left school there was this yuppie burger joint, Betty’s Burgers, in Noosa. I was actually a dishy there. And I was like, this song is going to be about sauces, but I’m going to try and make it sound like a love story. There’s Betty sauce.
[Laughter]
You should try the reverse next, like it’s actually about a girl but everyone thinks it’s about sauces!
JH: Fully!
What can you tell us about ‘Rid Of You’?
JH: It’s about having a bit of a disagreement with the one that you love, but comes back around. That’s a song that sounds really happy, like the riff and everything. And then it’s nastier, like, I need to get rid of you. It came about because me and my girlfriend broke up for a period of time. I wrote a poem idea around then. W were both still living together and stuff and at each other’s throats.
Awww. Tense!
JH: Yeah, tense. It’s about having a disagreement and being melodramatic [laughs].
Musically, the chorus sounds a little like…
JH: ‘(I’m) Flipped Out Over You’…
Yeah, by The Victims. Was that influence was subconscious?
JH: Yeah. That one was subconscious. I did it and I showed the boys, especially Eamon because we listen to a lot of old punk stuff, and he was like, it’s just like ‘(I’m) Flipped Out Over You!” I was like, I’ll just tell people I deliberately did it [laughs], but I didn’t really mean to.
We were at a record store in the Gold Coast and the dude behind the counter was like, “Have you heard the new Unknowns record? We love it!” He said there’s a song that sounds like… I cut him off and was like, The Victims. He was like, “Yeah, but I love how they just embrace it.”
JH: Yeah. The more I think about it, The Victims being a punk band for Perth, they deserve all the credit they can get. If we can incorporate a little tongue-in-cheek rip off in there, it’s an ode to them.
Photo: Jhonny Russell
Next song is ‘Crying’.
JH: I was feeling down.
Emo Josh?
JH: [Laughs] Yeah, emo Josh! You know when you feel down and you don’t know why. Everyone gets it. You’re feeling down, but you’re still tough! Sad for no reason. It pops up every now and again for me—I’m still doing it tough though. I’ll be crying but I’ll be like, fuck you!
[Laughter]
It’s interesting that the album track run is ‘Rid Of You’ and then ‘Crying’.
JH: Progression of moods [laughs].
Progression of mental states!
JH: [Laughs] Yeah, fully. Things might be going really good for you and everything, but sometimes you’re still sad.
I’ve had that. I’ve been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety throughout my life, especially when things are seemingly going great.
JH: Yeah, for sure. Sometimes you just see something and you cry. Why is this happening to me?
How about ‘Beat Me’?
JH: That’s about another person from the coast who I no longer get on with. It’s actually the original guitarist from The Chats.
You should rename your album East Coast Beef.
JH: Fully, that’s amazing. He’s from Coolum too. When he got kicked out of The Chats and I joined, we all knew each other… I was never really that good of friends with him because for starters, I don’t think he really even knew what sort of band he was in. He was a bit of a douchebag. Basically I heard all this stuff when I joined and I wasn’t living on the coast still, I’d hear like, through the grapevine, that he said if he sees me at the pub he’s going to bash me. I go back to Coolum and no one ever said a fucking word to me. The song is about that person looking for a good old scrap in the street. Obviously, I’m not a huge fighter or anything. I envisioned a bit of a rumble and.
Not backing down usually scares off people that are all talk. Jocks at my school growing up would say that they’ll bash me when I get off the bus tomorrow. I’d go up to them and say, let’s roll! Let’s do this motherfucker! They’d always freak out.
JH: Yeah, that’s what it’s about.
You’re like too busy playing music and livin’ the dream to have scraps with losers anyway.
JH: Yeah, that’s the thing. There’s lines in the song: I’m on my own 10 to 1 / I’ll take you on, I wasn’t born to run.
Bring it!
JH: Yeah. It’s still just a fun one.
Less angst, more tongue in cheek?
JH: Fully. Like a 50s rumble knife fight, that you see in a movie like The Outsiders.
That’s exactly what I was thinking! I love that movie.
JH: I was just writing tongue-in-cheek about some dickhead that keeps saying he’s going to bash me.
Photo: Jhonny Russell
I’m not looking for trouble, but I’m ready for it.
JH: [Laughs] Yeah, exactly.
‘Thinking About You’? A love song?
JH: That is a love song, for sure. It’s about being on other sides of the world from each other and trying to sort things out. You might be going through a rough patch, but you know how hard it is trying to sort things out when there’s that much distance when you love someone.
You can’t just give them a hug.
JH: You might have a disagreement, but thinking about them, I guess, sometimes that’s the best you can do.
‘Know It All?’
JH: It’s about someone that thinks they just know it all. The chorus is: Don’t come on to me / I’ve got no points to make, you’ll see. It’s like, don’t even try and talk to me because I’m not even going to give you any sort of answer.
I’m not going to feed your bullshit?
JH: Yeah, I’m not going to feed it.
We’ve all met people like that! I’ve been at shows sometimes and dudes will come up to me and start talking to me like, oh, you like punk do you? Then they start mansplaining punk to me and treat me like I have no idea. I’m actually friends with all of their punk heroes but I never tell them and just let them go on and on. You can’t talk to people like that, they’re more inserted in flexing their punk knowledge and cred than actually having a two-way conversation. Most recently at a show a dude was trying to mansplain power violence to me!
[Laughter]
JH: Yeah. It’s really frustrating! I guess you’ll always get that. But that’s the interesting thing about when punk started it was so mixed and it was everyone, all genders.
Just all the weirdos getting together to express themselves.
JH: Exactly. All the outsiders all banding together to actually work with each other and create something, not trying to exclude each other and be too exclusive. The you can’t like that cos I like it culture, the you’re not like us culture, which I feel probably ruined it for a lot of people. It probably inspired a lot of bands to move away from the genre.
Yeah like that Dead Kennedys’ song that talks about “a closed-minded, self-centered social club” and how the bright people get driven out of our so-called scene and you’re just left with thugs. What’s ‘I Don’t Know’ about?
JH: That song just about getting blind drunk and not remembering what happened the night before. Waking up with the booze horrors, which has been a reoccurring theme in my life. Everyone gets that growing up.
Have you ever got really drunk and ended up somewhere weird?
JH: Oh, it actually happened here one time. I was in The Zoo and I was on a tear. I started drinking, it’s when Sailor Jerry’s brought out those bloody, apple flavoured rum. I drank too much and I basically ended up losing all memory. I got a bar stool and tossed it over the bar up in The Zoo. It was on a Wednesday and I got thrown out. I was just hanging out in the Valley, not even knowing what I was doing and basically I ended up in Winn Lane here. I was hanging out with these derelicts and I slipped and hit my head on the curb and was knocked out. I was bleeding very badly. I woke up to the ambulance lady. I was on a stretcher going to hospital. There was so much blood. I nearly died.
I couldn’t find my card. These people that I was hanging out that I thought were friends in my distorted state, had stolen my card, my money and everything. I had told them where I live. During all this they went to my house and tried to rob it. My housemate was there and she was fucking petrified. I didn’t know any of this until I got back home.
I got let out of the hospital 6AM. I had no phone, no card or anything, so I just walked to the Bowen Hills train station and got the train home with this bandage around my head. That was the worst I ever had. That’s basically what ‘I Don’t Know’ is about.
Did that kind of slow your roll for a bit?
JH: Yeah, that changed things for me. I thad to go have a chat with someone after that because I was like, this is too much, the drinking culture.
When I first just doing The Chats stuff I was stoked because I was earning a bit of money off that. Before that I was roofing, so I was heavily into the drinking culture anyway. In trade culture drinking is huge.
I over did it. Because I’m a bit of an anxious person, I was an anxious drinker. It just turned into this snowball, when that happened, we had to postpone a sold out Tivoli show for The Chats.
That would have been full on having to deal with repercussions from your actions that affected other people too.
JH: It was very bad. So that’s ‘I Don’t Know’ [laughs].
Wow. I’m never going to listen to your songs in the same way. In a good way though, there’s so much more depth then you’d initially think there is.
JH: It’s another song that sounds happy, but isn’t.
It’s so cool to learn more about you too. Every interview I read with you it annoys me that you always get asked such dumb questions. I finish reading them and think, I don’t know anything new about you, about what you’ve created, done, or where you’ve come from. Especially Chats interviews, ugh! The interviewers are the worst. It’s like they never treat you guys seriously.
JH: They’re always vague and just goofy.
Yeah. It’s kind of disrespectful because you guys have been playing music for ages and you’ve done lots of cool things. There’s lots to talk about.
JH: There’s a lot of people within the music industry that want to hear goofy shit. They’ll be like, everyone’s going to love this, it’s funny! I’m like, OK [laughs]. I’m enjoying this chat.
I’m glad. Do you ever feel external pressures?
JH: No, I was sort of bought into it. It’s the way I make my living now. It’s pressure. I just remember I’m lucky to be in an industry where if you can have a level head and you can learn how to navigate through it correctly, it’s one of the best because, it’s very flexible working hours. You can have beer while working. I only feel pressure, to be honest with you, if I’m too hungover or had too much, because then the anxiety starts kicking in. It’s like, fuck! I got to get steady on stage, I’m doing deep breaths. I just try and just be a good boy.
You have a good time after you’re done?
JH: Yeah, exactly. I feel like there’s only pressure bringing on to yourselves.
Tell us about song ‘Deleted’.
JH: That’s like another long distance one. It’s like, I’m deleted from your heart and I can’t get back by your side. It’s also about being in Brisbane, it’s a very small world. So if something was to happen and you’re away and someone does the dirty with someone else, it’s a very small world. It’s too close to home. If you’re not there for someone enough, you’re just going to drift apart inevitably.
That’s a common thing I’ve found with musicians over the years, it’s hard for them to have meaningful relationships. To have something that’s going to work, you have to share space and time with your partner. If you’re on tour all the time and you’re never home, how can you properly get to know someone? How can you truly be there for them?
JH: Yeah. You have to put in effort. It only takes ten minute phone call every day for it to be okay and still be present. Thinking of each other and doing everything you can, like calling each other.
I love that you write love songs. That’s a big reason I love Eddy Current Suppression Ring too. A lot of power pop is about love also.
JH: That’s the thing. I didn’t even know the actual genre term of power pop until, to be honest, a lot later because people started calling it that. It was a bit ditzy of me [laughs]. I just thought they were the best rock and roll bands. Look at the Beatles and the Kinks, all the British Invasion, they brought back the whole resurgence in rock n roll and got kids listening to that stuff again. A lot of those songs were love songs.
A lot of the Nuggets stuff too.
JH: I love Nuggets. I don’t have any Nuggets thought, but I’ve nearly got the whole discography of Pebbles.
Do you find you get much support for The Unknowns in Brisbane? I ask because for us, we get more support for Gimmie from Melbourne, Sydney and overseas than we do in our own town.
JH: It’s funny around here. It’s the same for The Unknowns. People are, I don’t know…
Too cool for school?
JH: Yeah!
To be fair, it is a smaller scene and it does happen to Australian bands in general. Often I’ve seen bands have to go overseas and make it, then people here follow after. It’s such a big thing in punk especially, people hating something because it’s popular. It’s the same mentality of only liking something because it’s popular. It’s the same stupidity, you’re not liking it because of your own taste; you’re basing it on what other people are doing.
[Laughter]
JH: It’s not very punk, if you ask me.
Exactly. If music you like happens to get popular and it’s still the same music, why wouldn’t you still like it?
JH: It’s so weird. There’s a few older punks, the old crusty crew, that are like, “Fuck The Unknowns. They’re not underground, they’re not in the trenches!”
[Laughter]
It’s like come on mate. I don’t want to go see your punk pop band that plays at King Lear’s every weekend. The venue is good though, it’s good for local bands. I love the Beardo, it’s the best!
The Bearded Lady has the best sound and best vibes!
JH: It’s my favourite! I’ve had so many good times there. One of the best things about it is that it’s not in the fucking Valley! You don’t get stuck there at midnight when you’re trying to get a ride home and it’s just clowns walking passed. West End is much more chill.
The last song on your record is ‘Supersonic Love’.
JF: That’s one of Nato’s songs. He’s the Unknowns bass player. It’s a love song. It’s a a bit of an instrumental freak out in that one. We hang on the one riff and there’s a bit of an expression session at the end. We thought it’d be cool to do live. We usually play it at the end, ‘cause we’ve been playing the album through. We have some audience participation in that one too.
We saw seen Billiam get up with you guys!
JH: Yeah. And we played The Old Bar and Allan Stacey from Street Sleeper was there having a rip. Then we saw Wayland from Flight to Dubai and he played with us. I love Nato songs. He doesn’t write that many songs, but when he comes to us to us with a song it’ll alway be a fun one.
What’s one of your favourite things you’ve ever seen live?
JH: Kim Salmon playing Tym’s Guitars a few years ago, he played heaps of songs off the first Scientists record. I was loving it. I was 19 and drove down from Coolum for the afternoon. It was so sick.
Also, the first time I saw Schizophonics, in Belgium, they played this small stage and it was absolutely insane. Pat Beers was pulling the splits and doing acrobatics.
Have you ever met someone who you’ve admired and they sucked?
JH: Yeah. Tex Perkins.
When I was a teenager, I stood beside him in a news agency in Sydney in Centre Point browsing music magazines. I didn’t say hello because he looked kind of mean.
JH: He came and did a book signing on the Sunshine Coast. I had a Salamander Jim record. I took that to get it signed. He’s like, “Where’d you get this?” I was watching him and he’s still trying to be Tex to all the old married mums.
[Laughter]
I snuck a joint with my friend, then went back and was observing him signing all these books and chatting up these mum’s and trying to cuckold…
Being super sleazy?
JH: Yeah. I was like, what is this dude? Someone was like, “oh, that’s just Tex!” That’s not cool. I do love Beasts of Bourbon and all his bands, but I’ve never been a massive fan of the Cruel Sea.
Anyone you met that was super cool?
JH: The dudes from The Spits! They so sick. Also, John Brannon.
I saw that he wished you Happy Birthday, that was lovely of him.
JH: He is so lovely! He’s just like a classic Detroit music nerd. You’d think he’d be like real tough but he’s a goofball, man. He loves music. We hit it off!
Also, Nikki Corvette is an absolute sweetheart. She just is amazing. We were just talking and she told us stories of how she dated Johnny Ramone for two or three years. And of all the times that in the early-70s that Iggy would try to get to sleep with her because she was also from Michigan, but she never did. She always played too hard to get, which I love. I pinched myself because I never thought I’d met her. She’s a big influence on The Unknowns.
What’s the rest of the year look like for you?
JH: Touring the UK and Europe. The Chats go overseas in October. We go to the States again, which will be fun, and then go straight to Europe. Lots of travelling. I love it. I’m so fortunate to be able to go around and play music and meet amazing people along the way!
I’m slowly starting to book Unknowns European tour for next year. We got an offer to do Funtastic Dracula in 2024 in Spain, which should be sick. It’s a big festival over there. They have bands play like The Mummies and those sort of bands. We’re looking at probably putting new music out for The Unknowns towards the end of the year.
Sitting down to chat with founding member of Poison Idea and legendary frontman Jerry A. Lang, I noticed that he’s softly spoken and super lovely. A surprising contrast from his loud, in-your-face, envelope pushing “Kings of Punk” hardcore band that we’ve all heard crazy stories about over their 30 year career.
Last year, Jerry released a three-part memoir series Black Heart Fades Blue (which we highly recommend) that tell his intriguing, unconventional life story, the events that inspired his songs, and what made him stop hating and hurting. They’re a true reckoning of his past and present on the page.
Why is music important to you?
JERRY A: It seems like the easiest answer in the world, but it also seems like the hardest one. I don’t know why. Why do do children love their mother? Why do we breathe air? Why do we like sunshine? I had a great appreciation for art at a very young age. It’s just the music, it’s intoxicating. It’s like a drug. I was a little child and I heard it, and it was just magical.
In one of your books in your memoir series, Black Heart Fades Blue, you mentioned that when you were a kid, music seemed magic for you and that it made you believe that anything is possible.
J: It’s still that way. I hear some of the new stuff and I think it’s bad black magic, voodoo. These kids are throwing out some bad mojo. But I’m an old man, so that’s what people are going to think, damn you kids [laughs].
Can you remember the first piece of art that you experienced that had a really profound impact on you?
J: I was at a birthday party for a friend of mine when I was young, his older brother had Let It Bleed by The Rolling Stones. I remember looking at that album cover, just staring at it, and they were playing it. The record cover has a bicycle tyre, then a cake and then little figurines of the Rolling Stones. It’s stacked up. I remember looking at that and thinking it was so cool. I was probably three or four. I remember looking at it and going, wow, that’s amazing! I was mesmerised. That’s still a really cool record.
One of my favourite moments in your books is when you were talking about making art, all of your band’s flyers and album covers. It was cool to read about you making the logo for Poison Idea. How you had all these magazines and you used an X-ACTO knife to cut out letters, and how you turned a “B” into the “P”.
J: Yeah, you know what? It never left either. Me and my wife do art together, we try to make a weekly calendar. There’s some evenings where we’ll paint. I make collages and just stuff like that too. And it’s still as fun as it was then. It’s great. It’s actually working with some kind of magic bringing these things to life.
It makes me happy to hear that you still do art. I love that you still get excited about art and music after doing it for so long. I know so many people who get jaded.
J: Yeah. I’m on social media, I belong to this one group, it’s a bunch of old punk rock guys, a bunch of pissed off punk rock guys. They’re always taking the piss out of Amyl and the Sniffers and The Chats and bands like that. But these bands are saving punk rock. You don’t understand, you old bastards. They’re the new kids of punk rock. You guys just can’t accept it because you’re old and bitter. Australia’s always had just such great, amazing punk rock like The Saints, and it’s still coming.
I’ll make you a cassette mix tape of new Australian music!
J: I would love that. Thank you.
I love sharing music, that’s why we do our zine, Gimmie. It makes me so happy to be so stoked on someone’s music that I just want to share it with everyone!
J: Yeah, the mixtape thing in the 80s was such a really cool thing.
I used to make YouTube playlists for my wife when I was courting her. I would send her playlists with these punk rock love songs, and soul songs, and Al Green. How could you say no to something like that? [laughs].
Totally. The same thing happened with me and my husband. We lived in different cities and we started sending each other mixes of music, and art; that’s how we got to know each other. Then one day I was like, I’m moving to his city, he’s the coolest person I’ve ever known, I can’t not be near this person every day!
J: It’s like a movie, like, You’ve Got Mail or Sleepless in Seattle. But with a good soundtrack [laughs].
[Laughter]. Yes! I’ve heard you say that being a singer is the best job in the world; how so?
J: Well, it’s the best and the worst. Because I could kind of phone it in, call in sick or I could drink and do drugs during the job and that’s really not healthy to do any kind of job when you’re not up to standard. I got used to it.
You go on tour in Europe or wherever, and every city you play, the people are waiting for you. For them, it’s a big event. They’re waiting and they’re saving up all their party—they just blow out and have a giant party and go crazy. You’re thrown right in the middle of it. But the next day you have to do it again. The same exact thing, like Groundhog Day but in another city. So you you wake up and before you even open your eyes, you grab a beer and chug it to just try to take the drive to where you’re going to next. You do that for 50 days in a row, it’s going to do some wear and tear on you, but it makes you who you are. Hindsight is 20/20. But it can be a great job.
After writing the book and having people review it, I learned things that I didn’t know. It was pretty much a confessional. I listen to people’s podcasts and read stuff, people taking my songs and dissecting them. I was like, oh, that’s true. They say, it’s like a child screaming in anguish, it’s screaming in pain and throwing a fit, like firing on just the emotion. I never thought about that. I was like, hey, good call. And, besides maybe a politician, it’s the only job where you can get up there, scream and make a complete asshole of yourself. People agree with you or think you’re a complete asshole. I’ll put that on my job resume for future jobs [laughs].
[Laughter]. How does it feel different for you when you’re performing loaded to when you’re performing sober?
J: Well, I’ve only done it a couple of times sober, and I was obviously nervous. There’s a happy medium with everything. I’ve been doing this a long time, and I still have a couple of cocktails in the evening when I’m making art or playing my records or dancing or doing whatever, and there’s nothing wrong with it. I learned I should have done that earlier, just had a couple of cocktails. Everybody, most of the musicians and authors that I respect and all the good actors that I like, they would do that. But there’s parts where you abuse it. You shouldn’t go there. It’s not good.
Do you think having a couple of cocktails helps you relax?
J: Well, it’s just what I know, it’s just what I’ve always done. To try to say that I’m not going to do that, I’m going to do it like this, that’s like me going up and trying to sing in Spanish or Japanese. I don’t know Japanese and I can’t sing in Japanese. So that would be the same thing as going up there and singing without having any drinks tonight. I’ve never done that. I don’t know how to do it.
You mentioned you got nervous singing sober; have you gotten nervous before singing other times?
J: They say the chain is only as strong as its weakest link, I know that I can do my job, but there’s other people up there doing it with you. There’s the sound people, the instruments going out of tune, my band and the people at the club…It takes a perfect scenario for everything to go right. Things do tend to go wrong lots of times.
Sometimes I’m good to jump right in the middle of chaos and surf in it, I excel in that. But sometimes it’s hard, it’s like, your tyre flying off, as you’re driving down the street. You get a big rush of adrenaline, but sometimes it’s deadly.
The first time that you sang was at house party?
J: Yeah, a house party in Portland. It was all-star. There was a Portland punk band called the Neo Boys.
I love them!
J: I love them too. Pat [Baum] was playing drums and. K.T. [Kincaid] was playing bass, and people were up there, doing different songs. They were doing ‘I Want to Be Your Dog’ by The Stooges. I sang. It’s like riding a bike.
Before that you were playing bass in Smegma. When you decided to go from playing bass to being a frontman was it a conscious choice?
J: I was playing bass in a couple of different bands and it was fine. I really enjoyed it. But then I started seeing other bands and I didn’t think the singers were doing that great, I thought I could do better. They were really good musicians. I thought, wow, if I could do that, if I could get in that band with these people, then we could actually do something good. I made the effort to do it. It took a lot of tries.
In the Poison Idea Legacy Of Dysfunction documentary Mark Barr mentioned that you’re really a sensitive and mild-mannered guy. Would you agree?
J: I was just a kid, and I was taking everything in. I just kept my mouth shut, and I was watching everything happen and learning.
What’s something you remember learning that’s stuck with you?
J: I was a young child. I was a young man. There’s things you learn by yourself. I guess I pretty much confessed everything in the book.
Have you always been a sensitive person?
J: My wife seems to think so. Mark and I would watch the punks and the scene; the punk rock scene was very creative and very feminine-friendly. It was like a renaissance. But then the hardcore punk thing came in and like Tom [“Pig Champion” Roberts] said, it was an uglier music, it was a dumbing down. It was violent, it was mean and it embraced the nihilist stuff and all that crap. We were in it and we wanted to be the big band, so we wanted to be the kings of the nihilists. If you want to do that, you need to up your game. There was a time when I thought GG Allin didn’t have nothing on us. But honestly, who wants to fucking do that?
Totally. Previously you’ve said that you started Poison Idea when you were around 18, and at the time you were kind of having these feelings, of feeling unwanted and alone, and that’s what brought out the anger and made your art so intense.
J: It took me years and years to figure out why I did that stuff. Why all that, with everything, with the self-abuse and the drug abuse and the alcohol abuse and the abuse and the anger and the rage. Luckily, I married a therapist, a woman who’s actually, you know, kind of just tells me what what she sees. I was like, yeah, I guess you’re right. She’s an art therapist too.
That’s wonderful! Art can really help with healing and processing things. When I started reading your books, I actually read the last one first.
J: Oh, wow.
Yeah, I went backwards. Over the years, I’ve heard lots of full on stories about Poison Idea, and I was really interested to know where you were at now and what helped you change for the better? That’s why I read the last book first. You seem like you’re in such a happy space now. I feel like one of the biggest things that’s helped you is, love.
J: Yeah, definitely. You know, I was a drug addict for a long time, we all were in the band. Out of five people, two are dead and one’s completely M.I.A. – I have no idea where the other one is, and the other one’s just trying to survive. You come to a time in your life where you’re just like, I don’t want to do that anymore.
Now on the west coast of America, where I live, some drugs are decriminalised and you can be arrested or stopped on the street and nothing happens to you. There’s Fentanyl and stuff, it’s going to kill generations of people. Crime is going through the roof and businesses are closing down, and I don’t know what the end result is.
If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would say that somebody is wanting this whole society to be a society of masters and slaves. They’re letting us burn it down. So finally we just go, we’ve had enough. It’s like some fucking movie. It’s like Batman or Road Warrior. It’s so bad. I don’t know why people would want this. I don’t know why they’re letting this happen. They’re letting it happen, so it gets so fucking bad that we just go, please, do anything. Anything. Just make this stop. And then they’re going to say, okay, we will. No more of this, no more that, no drugs, no guns, no freedom, no anything. We’re going to say, yes. Just make it stop, please. It’s scary. There’s no such thing as moderation. It’s horrible. Lucky for me, I got sober. I can see it happening because I was there. I was in that life, I know how horrible it was.
Do you think with the times we’re living in, that maybe looking after yourself is more of an act of rebellion?
J: Sure. Yeah. I don’t think a lot of people are thinking about tomorrow. There’s a lot of people on a death kick. There’s a lot of people who are dying from drugs, like young kids. We had three kids die last week.
One of the things with punk rock, you were always taught to ask why about everything, to question everything— I’ve never stopped. I’m still questioning, why is this going on today? Why is this happening? Why are we letting this happen?
Like I say, there’s no moderation. There’s no grey area. It’s either black or white, and it’s really polarised. The whole world has been broken up into that side or this side. We keep fighting with each other, and we don’t really see what’s really going on. We focus on who’s the enemy because we know we’re right and this person is wrong. Maybe stand back sometimes and just look, the signs are everywhere.
It’s just about having awareness. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t even have awareness of themselves.
J: Yeah.
A lot of Poison Idea’s songs are based on things that have happened, personal experiences, and experiences of friends. What song do you consider to be your most personal that you’ve written?
J: Every song is personal. There’s a few where people would give me titles of songs, like my guitar player would say, here’s a song called ‘Hangover Heart Attack’ then I would write the lyrics around that thing.
Like I said in the book, I was with my friends in New York and they said, why don’t you write a song about rebellion? About the old rock and roll, getting in your car and driving off a cliff as fast as you can with your girlfriend thing? So that was it.
Two years ago, when we stopped playing, we did a series of shows because I wanted to come back and play good shows and then stop. And we did our second or third last show in Japan. I wanted to do a behind the stories type thing, where we played three songs, then I introduced a song and told the story about why I wrote it. So we chose Japan where they don’t speak English [laughs]. And I was up there explaining the songs to these crowds of people and they were just staring at me like, what are you talking about? A few people got my feeling; they were picking up on it. We said, this song’s about my friend dying, and this songs about my friend dying and this song I about my friend dying. There seems to be a theme here with our songs. They seem to be about people dying or people getting arrested or people having enough, or people being sad.
All the songs do have their little stories. Songs, they’re kind of like movies. Three-minute movies where you try to jam the whole thing in there so you can picture it in your head. I’ve never really thought about that before. So now I’m reflecting and thinking about that and going, wow, these are sad little movies.
There was a lot of losses of loved ones you wrote about in your books the one that really hit me and stood out was when your dog passed away. I feel like that really affected you.
J: Yeah. They were somebody that gave me unconditional love, my best friend.
My friend passed away about a week ago, I had a photo of him, and I saw the photo, and I thought that he really never left. As long as you keep someone in your heart and fondly remember them, you never really let them go, they’re never really going to die. Like Chris Bailey from The Saints. Because we’re all just energy and we’re all just stars anyway. So people never really left. We’ve always been here forever. It’s just how you look at things. I see some people walk around with black eyes, dead looks of not being there. Then there’s some people you just see and they just shine. I don’t think my friends are gone, the people that I love, I feel that they’re still here. I feel that they’re always there. We’re all stars. Wasn’t that like a stupid Moby song?
Yeah. ‘We Are All Stars’.
J: Oh, my god. I’m quoting Moby. I should stop [laughs].
[Laughter]. Speaking of stars, I noticed you have a copy of Van Gough’s Starry Night painting on the wall behind you.
J: Oh, yes. Right next to a Killing Joke poster, it’s from the Whisky a Go Go. Duality and balance!
Very cool! One of my favourite lyrics of yours has always been from the song ‘It’s an Action’: You can’t change the world, but you can change yourself. What inspired that lyric?
J: You know what? I wrote that thing when I was, like, 16 and I didn’t really honestly, at the time, I don’t think I believed it. I was just saying that. It’s one of these things, it’s like speaking in tongues. It just came out, and I had to eventually learn to understand what that meant.
Do you believe it now?
J: Of course. Definitely.
What’s the significance of the lyrics from your song ‘Feel The Darkness’ that inspired your book title Black Heart Fades Blue from: At midnight my heart’s fading blue?
J: That’s what black will fade to. It’s just the whole romantic symbolism of blue moon, blue hearts, and this horrific incident that was happening at midnight with this feel the darkness thing. It’s kind of like shining some light, getting some of that vitamin D, growing and opening up a little bit. It was an out of body thing. Sometimes things happen and it’s like you’re watching a movie and you don’t know why. You’re channelling it from somewhere or it’s all your experiences that are just coming through. Stream of consciousness.
When I was reading your books, it felt like they were written stream of consciousness.
J: That’s how we roll. A couple old friends who are reading it now and contacting me and asking me about it, I just tell them I kind of felt like I was caught for whatever I did. I was caught and convicted and I’m just confessing my crimes and I had nothing to lose anymore. I’m confessing everything. Saying all these things I kept for years. Confession is good for the soul. They say if you ever go into a jail cell you can see who the guilty person is, they’re the one who’s sleeping because he’s caught and he knows that, and it’s the other ones that are upset because they didn’t do anything. And so that’s how, I guess, I’m relaxing and sleeping because yeah, I did it [laughs].
Was it hard for you to face those things when writing?
J: Yeah. There were some things, stream of consciousness, as I was doing them, it flowed like water. But when I stopped and went back and read them, what I just wrote, then I would really shake and get upset. Sometimes it’d be very emotional because it was like, wow, where did that come from?
I’m so thankful that you shared your story, as I’m sure many other people are. I love learning through people’s stories, I think that’s why I’ve spent most of my life interviewing people. I love learning from others.
J: Yeah, it feels good. I can’t believe that people don’t continue to learn forever because there’s so much to know, so much to learn and it feels good.
You’ve been getting into to cooking and gardening lately!
J: Yeah! There’s so much out there. There’s so much in the world, it’s exciting and it just blows you away.
Original photo: Jacob McCann @blokeyoucantrust. Handmade collage by B.
Today we’re excited to announce Gimmie Records’ second release, the highly anticipated self-titled debut from Meanjin/Brisbane punk duo, Piss Shivers – Caleb Stoddart (guitar/vocals) and Gemma Wyer (drums). Their raucous on stage energy, which you may have witnessed at their shows supporting Amyl and the Sniffers, Civic, The Unknowns, C.O.F.F.I.N, Mini Skirt, and Arse, has been captured in a 16 minute and 30 second towering onslaught of explosion of focused fury and wry self-deprecation, by Pious Faults’ Tom Lipman’s live-in-the-room production style. Piss Shivers’ songs are emotionally charged and undeniably raw, manifested from being in one’s own head too much, driven by anxieties, addiction, a tumultuous homelife, and the premature loss of friends. The album has both depth and humour. Jack Mitchell from Guppy guests on the high tension track ‘Rats’ as well as painted the album cover art. The record was mastered by Mikey Young. Piss Shivers’ record unequivocally earns its spot as one of our top picks for Punk Album of the Year, that’s why we put it out.
We first saw Piss Shivers play in 2021 and were in awe of how full and huge they sounded. And, if you read Gimmie issue 5 you’ll already be familiar with them via the chat we featured with them (despite them never having released a song yet) and know that they met at a Propagandhi show, and of Gemma singing with Jello Biafra at a gig moments before acquiring a black eye!
We’re excited to be putting this record out. We love Piss Shivers and hope you will too!!
Piss Shivers finally have music coming out into the world. I know you were sitting on it for such a long time. When did you record it?
CALEB: We recorded it in November 2021, it’s crazy it’s 2023 now. We recorded it in a National storage shed in Bowen Hills, which is where we currently practise.
GEMMA: Deep underground.
CALEB: It’s really tinny, it’s has the corrugated-iron-kind-of-roller-door-vibe. We tracked all the instruments live.
Who recorded it?
GEMMA: Connor and Tom from Pious Faults. Tom agreed to record us, he’s looking to branch out and focus a little bit more on recording.
CALEB: He wanted to practice recording so he said he’d do it for a couple of hundred bucks.
GEMMA: Connor has done, like, audio engineering stuff before, so he kind of helps out, particularly with setting it up, like mic-ing everything and getting the sound right. You can imagine what it sounds like in a storage shed as opposed to a purpose built room.
Maybe that’s why it sounds the way it does?
GEMMA: It has a pretty massive sound. When we practise there, if we take a recording on our phone, the drums particularly sound massive. That sound translated really well because obviously there’s only two of us, without bass. Having the drums and the cymbals and the big guitar sound fill that and occupy that space. It worked well for our sound. Tom mixed it and Mikey Young mastered.
Photo: Jhonny Russell.
How long did you take to record it? A few days?
GEMMA: Two nights basically, all live.
CALEB: Then I just overdubbed another guitar. We recorded vocals at Dutch Vinyl…
GEMMA: In, like, a storage room filled with boxes of records.
CALEB: Tom used to work there. After work I’d come up after the shop closed.
GEMMA: That’s where Jack from Guppy came as well, to recorded vocals for ‘Rats’. We know, Guppy. We know she’s amazing. We gave her full control over that, and she came in and smashed it. She had a very specific idea of what she wanted.
It sounds pretty hectic.
CALEB: [Laughs]. Evil or something!
Yeah. What else do you remember from the recording?
CALEB: I got grumpy at Gemma. We had this fight. In one of the songs ‘Hoodie’ when I sing a part it lets me know when I’m going to change, in the recording I thought the bit was going longer. I was like, ‘It’s three times!’ Gemma was like, “It’s four times!” I was like, ‘Bruh, it’s three!’ We were swearing at each other [laughs].
GEMMA: The whole thing was that you kept changing at three but you were counting four. I’d be like, one, two, three, four. You changed on the three. We were having a back and forth. Caleb was like, ‘For fucks sake!’ Tom was just sitting there listening…
CALEB: It was a bit awkward for him.
GEMMA: Tom was like, “It’s actually four Caleb.”
[Laughter]
CALEB: I was like, ‘You’re fucking gaslighting me. I know how it’s supposed to be.’ Then I was like, oh, yeah.
GEMMA: Basically, I’m always right [laughs].
CALEB: Also, we were going to do another bit of tracking and there was a bloke that was sleeping in one of the storage sheds down he was very angry and told us to “Shut the fuck up!” He was bashing on the roller door and we were all like, holy fuck!
GEMMA: Jack was there, we were going to record her vocals for ‘Rats’. We didn’t end up doing it because we didn’t want to piss off this guy again.
CALEB: He went on a five minute rant of ‘Your mum hates you and your grandmother hates you.’ Very psychotic.
GEMMA: It was really trippy. We were like, everybody be quiet, oh shit, hide.
CALEB: He was yelling.
GEMMA: You were just warming up. It was so annoying because bands practise there all the time and nobody’s ever had that issue before. People run business out of there and I reckon there’s a few people that live in them.
CALEB: There was a guy there the other day belting it out singing, he must have been playing electric drums because you could hear him banging on something.
GEMMA: There’s still like a piece of cardboard that I wrote: hi, we’re just recording music, if you want to talk to us, please knock lightly, that we ended up sticking on the outside of the roller door.
Let’s talk about the songs on your self-titled debut. What can you tell me about opener ‘Red Stripe’?
CALEB: We wanted to do like more of a hardcore song, like L.A. hardcore. Lyrically, it’s just about being brain dead [laughs]
GEMMA: It’s a common theme [laughs].
Do you write all the lyrics, Caleb?
CALEB: Songs are about alcoholism, drinking, displeasure. ‘Red Stripe’ is one of my favourites to play.
Do you have a favourite song, Gemma?
GEMMA: Funny, actually, because it’s sometimes my least favourite to play. I really like ‘Onerous’.
Why is it your least favourite to play?
GEMMA: Because there’s this part that fucking every single time…
CALEB: This is the first time I’m hearing this [laughs].
GEMMA: The fill that I do. I don’t know what to call it. Like, the drum roll kind of thing. When we were recording, I feel like we were pretty tight. I felt drum fit. I felt like we had practise so much that we were really ready, but that was the one part that I couldn’t nail in recording. So in the record now, in the first section, I do that fill, I do it properly, and in the second one, I do like a sort of really stunted kind of like half, four notes instead of eight, and it really sticks out to me. It’s so frustrating to listen to. We tried it, like, ten times when recording, and I just couldn’t get it. They were like, “oh, it’s fine, no one will notice.” And now it’s forever on the record. And I’m just like it really gives me, like, a skin crawl. But I think our newest song that we haven’t recorded is probably my favourite to play now. It’s called the ‘New, New, New Song’ [laughs].
CALEB: I’ve got vague lyrics in my head, but it always changes.
What’s song ‘Onerous’ about?
CALEB: It’s about being stuck in my own head.
A lot of the album, except for maybe ‘Eyes Off You’, is in that theme.
CALEB: Yeah. It’s all about being stuck in your head. Getting down about yourself, struggles with lifestyle choices.
Is that how you were feeling when you were writing this collection of songs?
CALEB: Yeah. I was definitely in a place when I was writing it, coming up to writing the lyrics I wasn’t very happy.
Was there anything in particular that was contributing to that?
CALEB:I was doing a lot of drinking and drugs. I wasn’t happy in my work. I had a lot of friends falling out or moving away. That all contributed to that.
GEMMA: Big time.
CALEB: Yeah. You just go through the motions. I’m definitely in a way better place now. It’s funny, it’s kind of bittersweet sometimes singing, I want to die! Actually, I don’t want to die now. I have a nice job. I’ve got a cool girlfriend.
Do you think letting all that stuff out through music, though yelling about it, helped?
CALB: Yeah, it did. It was cathartic. I don’t know if it is now. I feel like I’ve tried to change the way I look at them so I can sing them without being so bummed out.
GEMMA: Being detached a little bit.
CALEB: Yeah, maybe it’s like, there’s always someone going through that. For me, even when I’m going through a shit time, certain songs stick out. So I’ve kind of tried to change the thing of like, well, maybe I don’t feel like that anymore but maybe if someone else bought the record and heard the songs they’d be like, fucking hell, this is exactly how I’ll feel!
Some of the saddest fucking things I can think of musically, like, a real harrowing song, can really make me happy. You think it shouldn’t be like that but listening to something that’s just so fucking sad and harrowing it can bring joy.
GEMMA: That human connection, I guess, that you get through knowing that other people experience what you’re experiencing. You feel like, I’m not alone. You’re matching the vibe. Of course. Yeah, I get it.
Photo: Jhonny Russell.
‘Hoodie’ is a relatable song. Every time over the winter I’ve put my hoodie on I get that line from the song in my head: I want to hide in my hoodie forever.
CALEB: [Laughs] True? When I was a teenager, I would sneak out of home a lot. I just love putting my hoodie on. If I’m walking home late at night I’ll have my hoodie on and it’s like, don’t talk to me. It’s like my safety thing [laughs]. It’s like the headphone trick, no one will want to talk to you.
Tell us about the song ‘Eyes Off You’ that I mentioned earlier.
CALEB: That song was kind of just like a dumb one that we wrote. I kind of came up with the lyrics on the spot. It was at least something different for us.
GEMMA: It’s a slutty club song.
[Laughter]
I guess there’s that feeling for everyone, you’re drunk in a gig and you see someone and you’re like, oh, they’re kind of cool. That’s a universal thing too.
It’s a fun song that definitely provides a lighter moment on a dark album.
GEMMA: Yes, definitely. I guess it’s you’re having a dark day, you have a few drinks and go out and have that moment of…
CALEB: Oh, there’s a really cute person over there.
GEMMA: Then you go home and sleep it off…
CALEB: And a few more beers and you’ll be back to it. To “I’ve cooked it”.
GEMMA: The funniest part about song is that when we first started playing it, I vividly remember a time at The Zoo where we started playing it at completely different tempos. That was quite a big gig. And, like, I cooked it massively!
[Laughter]
CALEB: There’s a bit in the song where I’m like, blah, blah, blah, because I didn’t want to keep singing it [laughs].
What about song ‘Chained’?
CALEB: It’s about [sings] marijuana.
GEMMA: They’re all about marijuana in a way.
CALEB: The first bit is kind of ripped off an Offspring song.
GEMMA: Oh my god, you said you wouldn’t say that.
CALEB: But it is [laughs]. I do this thing where I’m playing and then I’ll sing random words. When playing that song I just had the line in my head: Every day it’s the same… that’s from an Offspring song.
GEMMA: Shut up.
[Laughter]
CALEB: The other part of the song is about losing someone. The songs have different meanings sometimes, there’s different little bits of things.It’s a fun one to play, its fast.
GEMMA: I know. We originally called it ‘Mosh’ because we were like, please, someone mosh at our shows. I feel like that’s the biggest dream of mine, to have a crowd moving. I haven’t really had that before, like, in CNT EVN. You kind of feel like, I guess, it’s not gonna happen. Seeing that movement and that energy in a crowd is the best.
CALEB: The show we played at Mo’s Desert Clubhouse when we played with C.O.F.F.I.N was kind of weird, half the crowd’s these tanned, blonde surfer chicks who were like “raaaaah” “blaaaah” and smacking each other on the walls. It was fun to watch. They were the last people you’d think you’d see going wild in the pit. Such a funny dynamic.
GEMMA: How about those lights? Hectic.
CALEB: They were a bit too much.
GEMMA: It’s really off putting when you’re playing.
CALEB: It was a bit overkill.
Yeah, the lights were almost like a strobe but it’s just they were changing so fast, like every second. Way too much. It’s distracting from the band and it just becomes not fun. What can you tell us about the song ‘Aren’t Ever’’?
CALEB: When I was younger, my mum was pretty depressed and had a lot of episodes. I feel like I couldn’t talk to anyone about it. The line: You aren’t ever going to believe it… crying in the night and screaming or whatever. I often get up really early and watch Rage, from six until I was in high school. I’d focus on that and zone into the TV when all this shit would be going on around me.
Music has been really helpful in your life, an escape?
CALEB: Yeah. I just didn’t think that, well as a young person, I was ten, you couldn’t really talk about what was happening and no one in the family ever really acknowledged it. The second half to it is getting into the mischief. There’s a period, a couple of years ago, I had a friend overdose, and one go to rehab. Then sometimes I’d have to go to work and be like, oh, I have a nice job… like you don’t know what someone is going through.
GEMMA: As a teenager you are totally egocentric. You’re focused on your own identity and working out who you are and your whole being is sort of inward focused. Then you get to the stage where you understand a bit more about yourself, are more confident in yourself, and you can start to look outwards. I guess, start to observe those things in other people and think about it like the iceberg. You see a tip of someone’s experience. Their behaviour is that outward thing, but what’s underneath? You have no fucking idea. It’s better to give people the benefit of the doubt all of the time. No one really wants to be horrible, no-one wants to be mean. I’d like to think that we’re all doing our best, but some people have a lot of shit going on, I guess.
We touched on it earlier; what can you tell us about song ‘Rats’?
CALEB: I had rats in our house for a little. The lyrics speak for themselves. There were some people that I worked with and I was like, yeah, you’re a bit of a rat [laughs], you talk shit behind my back. I was like, what else can I associate with rats? Rats in my work. Rats in the phone. Rats in my house…
Jack has a pretty unique style, like how she screams in Guppy. I was really happy with it.
GEMMA: It makes it more dynamic.
Gemma, would you ever have a go at doing Jack’s vocal live if she couldn’t be there?
GEMMA: Sitting behind a drum kit feels really safe to me, but, like, vocals are such a it’s just you, it’s not you in an instrument, it is all you. It feels so vulnerable and really scary to me. We’ve tried to practise but I’m uncoordinated and it’s hard to sing and drum. Watching Ben from C.O.F.F.I.N, I’m like, fuck! It’s wild. He’s so good.
Album art by Jack Mitchell.
Or like when Jake Roberston plays at speed in SMARTS and sings.
GEMMA: It’s wild! Maybe is I was a more confident drummer. I used to get sick before we would play. I would feel so nervous, not even consciously. Say if we had a gig on a Saturday, on a Thursday I’d start being like, oh, I don’t feel too great. I’m feeling really jittery, I’m feeling really irritable, whatever, not feeling good. I’d realise on the Saturday when I was sweating bullets and freaking out and be like, fuck. I’ve been really nervous this week about the show. Performing in front of people was really, really big for me. So I think having the drunk, it’s almost like the barrier, I like being behind that. It’s my little fortress [laughs]. The vocal part really freaks me out because we there was a point where we lived together when we made an electronic thing…
CALEB: I was making beats and really wanted to do a Crystal Castles project. I still do. I really wanted a femme voice to scream and be distorted over the top of this track. I got Gemma to try and do it.
GEMMA: I had to make him just go outside. He couldn’t even be in the house when I was doing it. So no vocals for me at this stage.
We super love song ‘Energy’!
CALEB: I met this person who was like a Ritalin child, heavy Ritalin child. He went off the rails and fried his brain. I thought that was an interesting concept. Amphetamines and frying your brain.
Musically, when we first started playing, I really wanted to be a Danzig-style vocalist, cos I love the old Misfits songs. I stopped doing that. I think ‘Energy’ was kind of in that vein. I feel like I just yell everything now [laughs]. In recording there’s more dynamics.
Was that kind of intentional?
CALEB: Yeah, I definitely want to have that in the recording, but when I’m playing live, I get so nervous. It all comes out on stage.
GEMMA: It’s better now. We used to set each other up, freaking out from nervous. I’d say, oh, I feel nervous and he’d be like, “Don’t say that, now I’m nervous.”
[Laughter]
We wouldn’t talk all afternoon so we didn’t freak each other out.
CALEB: That’s when we first started playing. We haven’t played much together.
GEMMA: It’s started to feel good. Playing is something that I’m actually starting to look forward to. It feels like a bit of a build up and a release. I never really understood when people said that before. People would be like, “I love getting up there. It’s so much fun.” I’d be like, you’re fucking crazy! That is a crazy thing to say. But now I kind of get that. It’s that adrenaline rush. You go for it and then afterwards you’re riding that adrenaline wave.
The last song on the album we haven’t talked about yet is ‘Gold Chains’.
CALEB: ‘Gold Chains’ is a song that we wrote together.
GEMMA: With a bottle of wine in COVID, sitting on the backstairs.
CALEB: Let’s write a song about this guy who’s…
GEMMA: Selling drugs [laughs].
CALEB: He just quit his job and dropped out of school and he’s got a gold chain and is still doing it, but it’s like nothing’s going right. There’s a slight narrative there.
GEMMA: It’s the cheesiest song. The only song I’ve had any lyrics put on is of course rubbish lyrics.
[Laughter]
It’s like, what rhymes with chain? Good direction!
CALEB: Co-writing lyrics is a fun thing to do!
Piss Shivers launch their album next Saturday August 12 at The Bearded Lady, West End. Get tickets HERE.
Original photo: Jamie Wdziekonski – @sub_lation. Handmade collage by B.
Gimmie love power pop rock ‘n’ roll band, The Prize. We premiered their first EP, ‘Wrong Side Of Town,’ this time last year, and it sold out within the first day. Today, we’re thrilled to premiere their latest single, ‘First Sight,’ from their highly-anticipated second release, set to launch on August 18th through Anti Fade Records and Drunken Sailor.
The Prize has been making waves, gaining attention and acclaim not just locally but worldwide. As we approach August/September, The Prize eagerly awaits their first international tour, joining forces with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard and The Murlocs, while also headlining their own dates across Europe and the UK. With their magnetic live shows, fueled by a three-guitar onslaught and dynamic rhythm section, The Prize is undoubtedly a band to know.
Gimmie had the privilege of getting an early glimpse into the upcoming release’s songs. The Prize drummer-vocalist Nadine answered a couple of quick questions about the ‘First Sight/Say You’re Mine’.
Photo: Jamie Wdziekonski.
What inspired the new single ‘First Sight’?
NADINE: Aussie came up with the main riff and he, Joe and Carey workshopped the parts together. It had been kicking around for almost a year but we only managed to finish it the day we recorded.
I’d recently discovered a Blondie song that I’d never heard before called ‘Scenery’ which I think had some influence on my writing.
It’s a classic theme about being out and meeting someone or even just seeing them from across the room and feeling some sort of connection or attraction but in those moments things don’t always play out the way you hope.
Tell us about writing the B-side ‘Say You’re Mine’.
N: Our bass player Jack wrote the riff for ‘Say You’re Mine’ and Carey came up with the catchy bridge. I wish I could put a more interesting spin on it but it’s just another stupid love song!
Meet Arron Mawson, a powerhouse behind some of Australia’s most dynamic bands – Stiff Richards, Doe St, Split System, and Polute. But his journey transcends the realm of music; it’s a story of authenticity, passion, and a pursuit of doing things for the right reasons.
For Mawson, making music is a visceral calling he shares with his friends. It’s about connecting through art, driven by an unwavering compulsion that pushes him to create from the heart.
Disenchanted with the traditional music industry, Arron took matters into his own hands, birthing Legless Records – a testament to DIY spirit.
In the whirlwind of the modern underground music community, where countless people, music, events, and distractions clamour for attention, Arron Mawson stands out as a beacon of authenticity and passion. It’s not just the fast-paced punk rock ‘n’ roll anthems or the inspiring DIY achievements that set him apart; it’s the very essence of his character.
Gimmie recently had the privilege of sitting down with Mawson before Split System embarked on their first European tour. In this candid conversation, we explore his bands, creative process, the art of songwriting, his inspirations, and the upcoming label releases. But beyond the music, we venture into the depths of his experiences – trekking in Nepal, confronting mortality, challenging the “too cool” attitudes, and embracing the art of “getting on with it.” Prepare to be inspired and enlightened by someone who embodies dedication, goodness, and the true spirit of the underground.
How’s life been lately?
ARRON MAWSON: Good. Moving house before we go to Europe, me and my partner moved into her mum’s place. That’s been nice. It’s been a really busy year, to be honest. It was sort of like a treadmill, I guess. It felt like it was nonstop, and then it’s finally settled down now right before going away.
I feel like after COVID, there was that massive rush. Everybody was saying “yes” to everything. And it kind of got to mid this year, like maybe a month ago, and I was like, ‘Oh, jeez, I really need to slow down.’ It’s been the craziest twelve months.
There’s so many good things that have been happening for you.
AM: Yeah, I’m kind of ready to go camping or something, though.
I feel like that as well. I work two jobs, freelance, and do all the Gimme stuff on top of that. It’s all fun stuff, but I just don’t have enough hours in the day to do all the things I want to do or that people want me to do. I always feel like I’m letting someone down.
AM: Yeah, exactly. You feel bad because you want to help your friends and you want to help everyone, but just you don’t have that capacity because it takes a lot. It’s been so nice seeing everybody back out after the couple of years that we had. There’s been so many good releases, so much positive energy. I feel like people are a lot more patient now and appreciative. It’s been a really fun year, but I think I can sort of feel it petering out, where it’s like everyone’s sort of chilling out now a little bit.
Definitely. I’ve noticed that as well. Everyone was so excited to get back into it and then we threw ourselves in so much that, like you were saying, you burn out and just want to go camping. I noticed on your Instagram there’s lots of music stuff, but then there’s also lots of nature stuff.
AM: Yeah, well, I guess that’s sort of my other hobby. I love hiking and I love being in nature. I live in Rye, which is about an hour and a half southeast of Melbourne on the coast. So I’ve always been drawn to the country and the coast. When I’m not doing music stuff or working, I’m usually doing something in nature.
I noticed that you trekked in Nepal!
AM:Yeah, I did that a couple of times.
What drew you to going to Nepal?
AM: Don’t really know. I’ve always had a fascination with mountains. When I was younger, I really loved snowboarding. It was less of the sport that actually drew me in. It was more the being in the mountains thing.
Why the mountains?
AM:I don’t know. A form of solitude. It’s cool. Doing a trek in Nepal, I wanted to be on my feet for over a month, and just be me and backpack. That was a place that I could do it.
I don’t know anyone who’s gone off trekking in Nepal for a month; what was the experience like?
AM: It was cool. When I started, I came straight off, I can’t remember what gig it was, but I think we had played a festival in Melbourne on the Saturday night and I left on the Monday, and I was trekking on the Tuesday. You basically basically start at sea level. The first few days it’s really hot and quite dusty and dirty. I was like, ‘Oh, jeez, what have I got myself into?’ But after five or six days I really got into it; I trekked for about five weeks. After a week, it was incredible realising your body’s made for that stuff. You get over the tired part of it and this primal thing kicks in and by the second week, you’re just like a walking beast [laughs]. It’s like, I can walk forever. It’s a pretty cool experience getting in touch with that side of your body a little bit more and switching off, not being on your phone and just being you and your feet.
I assume you’d have a lot of time to think while you trek?
AM: Yeah, it was really funny. I actually wrote more songs. I was humming songs, with the rhythm of my breath. I had walking poles and I ended up getting into a rhythm and writing songs in my head to the beat of my breath.
Wow. I love that.
AM: I’d hum these weird songs into my phone in my voice recorder on my phone. I got back and I had a ton of songs to go through. You get into that different creative headspace, but I didn’t really have an instrument or anything with me, so it was bizarre for me.
I find I get my best ideas when I go for a walk or I’m driving in the car or I’m just doing something else not creative. It’s like you kind of go on automatic pilot. It frees up your brain space to be able to let those good ideas come in.
AM: We’ve got so much noise around us. Walking undistracted with our own thoughts, a lot of people aren’t used to doing that, they don’t get the chance to do it. I think it’s a really important thing for us to do. You can go on hikes and just be alone with your thoughts, which can be quite intimidating sometimes, and then quite liberating as well. Because you’re just out there. You’ve got nothing to hide behind.
Totally. I found that you can never just run away from problems in your life, you can never outrun yourself. Wherever you go, you’ve still got you to deal with. Your problems go with you, until you sort them out.
AM: Totally.
Previously, someone asked you about your philosophy behind all the stuff you do and you said that you just get on with it.
AM: Yeah. I’ve got a pretty full on personality. I’ve met some challenges in my life. Doing this music stuff, especially at the start of COVID, that it really kicked into gear with my label, Legless Records. I used to have a lot of anger and frustration with the world. Sometimes approaching challenges and things with that, you don’t get anywhere. Sometimes you just got to pick yourself up and move forward. I guess the get-on-with-it-thing is, I don’t know how to put that to words, but you’re finding something positive to do. Sometimes getting bunkered down with negativity and anger can stop you from actually achieving things, results.
Yeah, totally. I think that you kind of realise that more as you get older. When I was younger, I was that punk rock kid with the spiky hair and the mohawk, and I was so angry at the world. But a friend told me that you can’t really fight fire with fire. Getting angry at someone when they’re angry is not going to achieve much.
AM: I guess that’s the thing. We have a right to have anger, but it’s your choice how you channel that. I used to get frustrated with the music industry, people around me, there’s so many things. I made that decision to make the positive change that I’m looking for rather than complaining about other people not doing it.
Absolutely. I’ve been doing my own thing for a long time, so I very much get that. That’s kind of why we started Gimmie, There were so many bands that we love all over Australia and no one was covering them.
AM: It’s nice when people do things for the right reasons. It’s out of passion. It’s not for profit or self-glorification or anything like that. It’s just because you’re genuinely interested in it. And I think it shows. Things immediately get grabbed by people because they actually respond well to that—the honesty, the passion.
People hit us up, wanting to give us hundreds of dollars to be on/in Gimmie and we’re just like, no, that’s not us. What were the particular aspects of the music industry that were annoying you?
AM: Well, I guess it can be an element of your own perception of what people are like and the reality. But it felt like a lot of the music scene was really too cool, hard to break, it was hard to get through to radio or record stores would be kind of dismissive. After that experience, I wanted to create an umbrella, sort of make this bubble, that me and my friends can sit under and use each other’s momentum to help each other skip that exclusivity. It does feel like that when you’re at the bottom and it feels like no one cares. And then if we work together, with the momentum of each band, we can give a bit of a spotlight to the next band that comes up. With a lot of people being too cool, I guess, I just wanted to drop that and just let people be a bit daggy and just play music for the sake of playing music. I don’t really know how to put words to it, to be honest. It just felt like unless you knew the right person… if you want to try to get on a festival and you want to try to get on a gig, it’s like, who are you? I was like, well, I’ll just do it myself. Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally. I’ve had that feeling before, that’s why you make your own things!
AM: Yeah. I feel better for it. I don’t really want to throw anyone under the bus, of course. It was actually good that happened, because it stimulated me to do something that I’m now really proud of. With that kind of pushback, it inspired me to do something. Now I’ve got all these incredible people around me. I wouldn’t take it back.
Totally! You’ve been releasing so much amazing stuff on Legless.
AM: Thank you.
I’m really excited that I finally get to talk to you about it all at length. Our favourite people are people that work hard and they just make stuff because they love making it. You’ve told me previously that your dad played in bands and you’ve been surrounded by music your whole life. What kind of bands did he play in?
AM: Dad grew up in Cornwall, in England. He was playing rockabilly, rock and roll bands for most of my life. He was a frontman-guitarist and he sort of switched between a few different bands. And then I lost him, when I was about 21. I had music around me most of my life but I think after losing him, I definitely got more drive having a loss like that at that age. It kicked me into gear. I’d always played music, but where I grew up in Frankston, there was not really many people that I aligned with. It’s a lot of fights, a lot of shit music, shitty clubs and as soon as I got my license, I moved to the beach. Half my mates either moved to the city or to the beach.
That’s where I started jamming with people more, sort of between that 18 to 21-year-old time in my life. Music has always been there, but it wasn’t until then, I sort of started surrounding myself with a few mates, who introduced me to Eddy Current Suppression Ring and stuff like that. For most of my life it was just rockabilly and rock and roll. I listen to Brian Setzer, stuff like that.
A lot of my buddies went to all ages hardcore gigs, but back then, I looked at it as very blokey and people punching each other in the head. I didn’t really find anywhere that I enjoyed until older age, and liking Eddy Current. That put me on to other things like Thee Oh Sees. I was like, what is this world? I haven’t ever experienced it.
I’m so sorry that you lost your dad so young. I’ve lost both my parents as well, so I very much understand what it’s like. Especially when you lose your parent/s when you’re younger. Friends don’t necessarily get it because they still have their parents. It’s just such a massive thing.
AM: Yeah. It’s a bizarre thing, death. I feel like our modern society is really not prepared for it. The loss wasn’t actually the hardest thing. It’s like that’s the only guaranteed thing in this life, is that we’re all going to die. It’s just the inability to process it. We don’t have the sort of community… the word that I’m looking for, like, rituals and stuff to process death properly; I feel like it’s something that we’re missing these days. That was probably the hardest thing, but it’s something that I’m really okay with because I started realising how much people are unprepared for death. It’s really weird. Yeah. Sorry, I’m thinking and talking at the same time.
No, that’s fine. I totally get you. Thank you for sharing that with me. Changing the subject then, I know you play guitar and bass. Which one was first?
AM: Probably guitar. I never really ever played bass. Bass just came with guitar. Guitars were always in the house. I think dad taught me, ‘Johnny B. Goode’ and ‘Smoke on the Water’ when I was real young, and then it was just like through listening to songs. I never really had lessons. Me and my sister would usually just be sitting around, and occasionally jam with dad.
Your sister plays in a band?
AM: She plays in The Miffs. They’re killing it at the moment. They’ve been playing around Melbourne and Australia. I’m really stoked for them!
That must be cool to see your sister ruling it. Is it your little sister or big sister?
AM: Little sister, three years younger. It’s great. The fact that we grew up with dad playing music and now we’re both playing in bands and stuff, it’s really nice. After dad passed away, it was probably about six, seven years there where we were kind of pretty separated, and it’s really heartwarming to be close again.
Lovely. You mentioned, Eddy Current Suppression Ring was such a big band for you..
AM: Where I was getting a bit stuck before, is rock and roll and that environment, it’s very blokey and it just felt really “too cool”. Eddy Current had this daggy, raw energy where everybody felt honest. I wasn’t this big, masculine guy. Eddy Current was such an unorthodox approach to music that I hadn’t heard before. I know there’s so much of that in history, but it was the first thing that I put on and it just blew me away. It was just like, what is going on here? The awesomeness of what Mikey does! This is the first thing that really grabbed me and started an introducing me to bands like UV Race and the Thee Oh Sees, and the plethora of other bands that came from there.
How great are all those bands you just mentioned? I love them all too, especially UV Race. I super love Mikey’s band Total Control too.
AM: Yeah. Eddy Current especially for me. I grew up in Frankston and they’re all Frankston boys as well. So it was like, ‘Oh, there’s someone from here that is actually doing something interesting!’ Growing up it was a lot of fighting and just people that weren’t aligned with anything. I wanted to build bike jumps and cubbies, just hang out, go skateboarding and stuff. But everyone else just wanted to fight. It was just odd.
Yeah. I’ve talked to Jim from Civic about growing up in Frankston a bit.
AM: It’s like this love/hate thing. Split System are playing at Singing Bird tomorrow night. Got our going away fundraiser thing. What Stu’s done there, all ages gigs, he’s got the studios and jam rooms, kind of made this institution for Frankston. It’s nice seeing the next generation of kids, actually having something to do. I don’t hear much of all ages gigs at all anymore. It’s all licensed venues that are based around selling booze. That’s how they profit. What’s for the kids?
Totally. Growing up in the 90s in Brisbane, I used to go to all ages shows most weekends. In my Senior year of high school I went to over 100 shows. It made such a difference in my life. I do all the things I do today because I went to those shows early on, and there was a lot of younger bands, even my age (15-16) at the time, that played, and I was like, wow, I could do that!
AM: Yeah. I was talking to the C.O.F.F.I.N fellas because they played in Frankston just before tour before they went off to the UK. That’s where they started, they all met when they were like 14. One of my favourite live bands now, wouldn’t have existed without that environment for them.
Stiff Richards. Photo: Jack Golding.
What was your first band that you had?
AM: Stiff Richards was the first band that actually did anything. I had like a couple of jam bands with mates. I had a band called Green Waste, which was my buddy, he had a property maintenance company and we all worked mowing lawns for him. Then we’d rock up at his joint, he had a jam room at the bottom of his house. There was a big pile of green waste out the front, every night when we finished. We did a couple of gigs, and that actually kind of led into us making Stiff Richards. Me and Tim, the other guitarist, were in Green Waste. That was pretty funny. That was probably ten random mates that switched in and out on different instruments. Probably seven guitarists trying to bash the drums [laughs].
The next band for you was Split System?
AM: Probably Doe St. Doe St and Split System were roughly a similar time. Polute, a little fun recording project with me, Benny and Stringer, came after that.
Is there much difference for you between the different bands? Do you get different things from being in each of them?
AM: Well, Stiffs, they’ll always be my brothers. We’ve had this journey from playing in sheds to being able to go over to Europe, and just everything that we’ve experienced musically together, is like such a family. I’ll hold that close to my heart forever. It’s a really special friendship. Wolfie, our singer, his sister has kids with Gazzo, the guitarist.
Split System, definitely feels like there’s a member from a bunch of different bands, and that seems to be really productive. They’ve become best friends as well. It feels really good writing-wise. That’s one of my main focuses at the moment, just because it feels really creatively stimulating and everyone’s getting along really well and having a great time.
Doe St, are all friends from the Peninsula that just sort of organically came together. My old house was on Doe St. Everyone was living on the same street or in the same neighbourhood. We wrote all the songs and recorded it there, just friends hanging out.
Doe St, pic courtesy of Legless.
It’s funny, I’m literally thinking out loud right now. There’s not much thought been put into any of them. It’s just things have aligned at the right time and feels good.
Sometimes it’s that simple.Sometimes when you’ve got too much intention with something, you set yourself up to be disappointed.
AM: Totally.
So, Split System is going to Europe?
AM: Yes. Going over for Shock Fest. We’ve got one show at the start of July and then I got a holiday with my partner for a few weeks, and then Split System start with Binick Folk And Blues Festival, which is the 29th of July, I think. Then we’ve got a bit over four weeks. I don’t think we have a day off either. I think we’ve got one night off in a month!
Wow. Do you like touring?
AM: Well, I’ve only done it once with Stiff Richards. And that was last year. It was one of the best experiences I’ve ever had. I’m definitely keen to go back.
What were some of the best things from that tour that you enjoyed?
AM: Honestly, the people, the hospitality in Europe. We had no expectations. We thought we’d be playing for ten people some nights and we ended up selling out almost every show; I don’t mean that in a bragging way. It was just mind blowing that people actually came out, in another country. We haven’t even toured in Australia. We’ve been out of Melbourne once, we went to Sydney, played with Celibate Rifles once and Meanies once. To go over there and have such a good response and such friendly people, it was unreal.
Yeah. Many bands I know that have toured Europe say the same thing and talk about how they have cool squats and places to stay in.
AM: Yeah. You rock up, they’ll have bread and cheese and stuff for you. There’ll always be someone to meet you. A lot of people touring are cramming as much in as possible because it’s quite expensive to be there. You’ll get in, then you set up, and they’ll cook you dinner and sit you down with the other bands and the staff. Sharing a meal with a bunch of people is the best way to break the ice. By the time the gig starts, you’re friends with 30 people. It’s really beautiful.
Stiff Richards Dig LP, pic courtesy of Legless.
Nice! So, you started Legless to put out Stiff Richards’ Records?
AM: Yeah, basically. I guess that comes back to some of those frustrations. It was hard figuring out how to navigate the music industry. I was like, I reckon I could just do this myself. Well, with the help of my friends as well, I feel like we can do this together. Then as mates were asking me how we approached it, I was like, ‘Do you want me to just help you out with it?’
Is there anything that you wish someone would have told you when you started the label?
AM: Well, kind of as I said, those challenges, even though they can be frustrations in the start, they end up being the things that make you stronger. Keep pushing through. Do things for the right reasons. Don’t expect to make money. Do things that make you feel happy and then you’re never going to get bummed out. Do things how you want to. There can be a lot of pressure to get bookers and management and stuff like that. That can work for some people, but if you’re willing to work hard, you can make it work really well for yourself. Positive encouragement for bands and people that want to do stuff. It’s like back yourself and have a crack.
Definitely felt defeated sometimes, it’s hard navigating that world sometimes when you’re outside. If you don’t have any super cool friends or people in the know, you’re just in this big open world. People need to stick on their path and stay true to their art.
Totally! You’re speaking our language. Putting out records with your bands, do you feel like there’s any mistakes that you’ve made along the way that you’ve learned a lot from?
AM: Not really. All mistakes can become lessons if you are aware of them and you utilise them. I can definitely be quite opinionated and get grumpy about things. And that’s where as I get further into things, I know that I shouldn’t have given those things as much fuel as I did, but I wouldn’t have learnt that without going through it. I don’t really regret it. You know what I mean?
Yeah. This is like anything in life, you get frustrated and then you learn to deal with something and you channel it into something else.
You seem it! Did any of the songs that you mentioned that you’d wrote when trekking in Nepal end up on any albums that you’ve put out?
AM: They definitely would have. I can’t remember. I’ve got the most obscene voice memos folder saved on my computer and it’s like pretty funny. Sometimes when I’m drunk with mates, you go back through all your voice recordings and find early takes of songs that you’ve done. That’s like, basically how most of our bands do stuff, record things on the iPhone and then you get a better take of it and it just disappears into the ether. I reckon there’d be some funny recordings of me in Nepal somewhere, like humming a couple of Stiff Richard songs.
Polute self-titled debut release, pic courtesy of Legless.
Do you have a song that you’ve been a part of that you’re really proud of?
AM: It’s weird, I don’t really approach music with heaps of intention. A lot of the time it’s me, grabbing a guitar and mashing chords until stuff starts feeling good. Sometimes it’ll be utter crap for three minutes and then something will feel right. I feel the beauty of a song is when everybody else contributes to it and then it becomes what it does. So I’m equally as proud of everything. Fluff it out with the rest of the team!
What else is in the works for Legless at the moment?
AM: We just finished recording the second Split System album. Can’t wait. I’m pretty stoked on that. That was a really fun process. The first seven inch and album were written, I think we’d only really played with each other properly like five times up until that first Vol. 1.
Wow. It’s a great record.
AM: To have like a year under the belt and a lot of it was done over the phone, sending snippets. We had a couple of jams and recorded Vol. 1 and then with this one, playing with each other for a year and actually having a few jams leading up to it, it was fun.
We’ve got the Stepmother album coming out later in the year as well. There’s a few other things in the pipe works, but I’m still not sure, I don’t want to jump the gun on a few things. Stepmother and Split System you can expect later in the year, most likely.
Split System Vol. 1, pic courtesy of Legless.
Cool! Looking forward to them. What can you tell me about Stepmother?
AM: It’s like a completely bonkers horror movie rock and roll album. It’s pretty crazy. Graham’s done an exceptional job. It’s going to be a split release with Tee Pee Records in the US. That’ll be out later in the year.
Who’s one of the most raddest people that you’ve met through what you do?
AM: Honestly, it’s really funny. I feel like the thing I feel most privileged about is that my favourite bands are the people that I’m actually putting out at the moment. So, between C.O.F.F.I.N, Smooch, you can go through the catalog; they’ve all become really good friends. So equally, everybody. The Rack Off Records girls from Blonde Revolver and all that crew. It’s a really good little community at the moment and everyone’s having a good time.
Before doing any of this, Mikey Young was definitely one of those people I looked up to and he definitely influenced me. When we were in the early days of Stiff Richards, he was a really good mentor without intentionally doing it, just being a good person and making me realise that all the people you’re going to meet in the music industry aren’t just wankers. I’d go around and mix at his house. He’d just be in his boxer shorts and have coffee with you, super casual. I was thinking, ‘Oh, this dude is my hero. And he’s just the most normal guy ever!’ He’d load me up with five records and send me off on my way.
With Gimmie, when we started, we knew no-one. We’ve met so many lovely people in the Australian underground music community. There’s moments when it feels like everyone is really supportive of each other.
AM: Yeah, I think that age of bolstering yourself up, and those “glory” years of, like, oh, look at me, it’s gone. There’s actually strength in supporting each other, and the competitiveness is starting to die out a little bit, and everyone’s kind of bringing each other along with them. So it’s nice.
Yeah. That’s why I really love Nag Nag Nag fest that Greg and Steph from Display Homes put on every year. It just has such a great environment and vibe. Everyone’s just really nice. It was such a nice day this year. Every single band was great. We were there from the very beginning till the end and watched every band, everyone totally ruled!
AM: Oh, totally. And everyone had a happy day. You get a lot of drunk people in a room, and it’s like there’s always one idiot that ruins it for it. But it didn’t seem to be any negative energy there for the whole day, so it was good. It just seemed like a happy family.
Before, you mentioned sometimes you feel defeated by things. How do you flip that for yourself?
AM: I don’t know. I’ve had a lot of things happen in my life that I won’t bore you with, but I just found with a lot of those challenges, even with losing my dad and stuff like that, through processing my own anger, I realised that you don’t get results from letting that negativity have a flame. Move on to something positive and time will heal everything. Life will throw you punches, but it’s a complicated world and it’s never going to be perfect. And if you feel like a victim all the time or let things get you down, you’re never going to get back up. You’ve really got to just keep trucking and do the things that you know is right and elevate yourself instead of complaining about what else is going on. You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.Surrounding yourself with positive things and positive people, really makes a difference too.
AM: Yeah. Everyone has a right to be down and stuff, but unfortunately I feel like unless you can get back into some kind of momentum, it’s easy to get stuck. So I keep busy and do the things that make me feel good. And it’s worked. Like doing the Legless-thing. I run a property maintenance business as well. I do window cleaning. I’ve been really busy, but when I slow down, I realise that I like being occupied. And if I’m not doing stuff, then I’d rather be in nature. I like exerting energy by walking or doing something else. When I get stagnant, I want to go do something.
We go to the beach if we’re having a rough day. Going for a swim or a walk can change your day.
AM: Yeah. The ocean heals a lot of stuff hiking. I do diving, and I go free diving with my partner a bit. I’ve always been drawn to the mountains too.
As we mentioned you’re about to go on tour, what’s the rest of the year hold for you?
AM: That’s going to absorb a bit of time [laughs]. As I said at the beginning of our chat, I’ve just moved house. I’m not back until mid-September, so by the time I get back, and get back into work, I’ve got the Legless releases teed up and then Christmas gets really busy for work for me. Usually once Christmas is over, we get back in a creative mode again once all the craziness of the holidays is over. Then probably start recording stuff again. I’m hoping that Stiff Richards might have some new music sometime next year, we have the intention of trying to record over January, we’ll see.
Will the Split System record come out before the end of the year?
AM: That’s the aim at the moment we’re talking with discussing label options. I’ll definitely be putting it out, but we’re just contemplating a few things at the moment. Before Christmas, otherwise early next year. Probably do a big run of shows for that. See a bit more of Australia.
It was so cool to see Split System at Nag Nag Nag this year! We loved your set!
AM: It was a pretty loose set. We got a bit excited early and were super drunk by the time we played, but it was such a good energy there. We were a little bit worried after, like, oh, jeez, that was pretty rough. Everyone was having such a good time, it didn’t matter.
Check out all the awesome things Mawson does and is a part of:
Original photo: Pooneh Ghana. Handmade mixed media collage by B.
Gimmie love Nashville punk band, Snõõper! They’re bringing fun back to punk rock! Their debut full-length Super Snõõper is a heady adrenaline rush. The band breathing life and a freshness back into the genre with their highly entertaining, mighty, live shows that reach a level of sublimity, complete with puppets and props. Their videos are art works full of wonder and humour, made by vocalist Blair Tramel.
We first heard Snõõper when Billy Reily vocalist for RRC/3D & The Holograms sent us a couple of tracks a few years back from a band that he had discovered and really loved. So much so he put out their first seven inch release Music For Spies on his DIY Australian label, Computer Human Records.
This week sees them in the country to kick off their first ever Australian tour with Gimmie favs Gee Tee. Gimmie caught up with Snõõper co-founders and all-round sweethearts, Blair, and Connor Cummins about a month ago to get an insight into their creative world.
We’re excited that you’re coming to Australia!
BLAIR TRAMEL: Us too! We’re so excited. We feel like we’re visiting friends there, even though we’ve actually never been there. It feels like we’re returning home in a way, because we had Billy and RRC stay over here recently. It’s going to be fun.
CONNOR CUMMINS: Yeah, we’re really excited!
Billy put out your first seven inch on his label, Computer Human Records.
BT: Yeah. It was over COVID. We were like, sure, let’s do it. We were very thankful for him.
Yeah. I remember we first heard of Snõõper through Billy. He was like, “You have to check out this band, they’re amazing!”
BT: We played with them at Gonerfest recently, and then they played a really fun show with Gee Tee here in Nashville. It was awesome.
CC: Mikey and a bunch of other people all stayed at our house for a couple of days. It was really nice.
Lovely. What’s something that you took them to see or that you did together?
CC: Well, it’s funny because everyone was partying so much at Gonerfest, we just sat around and had pizza. We went for walks around the neighbourhood, but we didn’t really do too much.
BT: My memorable experience was when we took them to Kroger, which is a grocery store close to our house. Have you ever heard of Kroger? It’s a Southern specific general grocery store. They had so much fun there. They were like, “The carrots here are so weird!” because they’re pre-sliced. Everything was just so American at the grocery store and they were so weirded out. Ishka rode the electric shopping cart! They had so much fun, and everyone was like, “You guys are definitely not from here!” The cashiers loved them.
Nice. It’s so awesome that you get to come here and do it all again with them.
CC: Yeah, we’re really excited.
I still can’t believe you’re coming, it’s so exciting. I never thought I’d get to see you play live.
BT: Yeah, it is great. I feel like RRC, Gee Tee, we’re all kind of part of the same scene, and that’s felt really nice because there’s not a tonne of bands close to us, that are making similar music. Australia just seems to have everything cool going on.
We do! That’s why we started doing Gimmie.
CC: Before I knew about a lot of the garage punk bands in Australia, I was a huge fan of Total Control, Eddy Current Suppression Ring, Royal Headache and all those bands since I was younger. I’m really excited to come over and see everything.
BT: It seems like you guys have all the cool stuff, like all the bands, but then also there’s this really cool puppet group called, Snuff Puppets. They’re awesome. I think they’re in Melbourne. They make huge giant puppets. They did a lot of stuff over COVID, they made these big noses and ears and all kinds of cool stuff and they were all trapped in houses. It was really fun watching their videos; we reached out to them. We’re like huge nerdy fans of theirs. We’re like, ‘Please hang out with us. We want to see the puppets!’ That’ll be cool too.
I love that Snõõper use puppets live. It reminded me a little of Quintron and Miss Pussycat. I love how Miss Pussycat makes puppets and does shows.
BT: Totally. We are huge Quintron and Miss Pussycat fans. They played Gonerfest a couple of times and they’re in New Orleans, not too far away from us, so we get to see them often.
New Orleans is really cool, they have tonnes of stuff like Mardi Gras and everything. But the parades and the puppets there, oh my gosh, it’s super cool! New Orleans is a unique place in that way.
What’s it like where you live?
CC: Kind of like the country, I guess. But we’re in the city.
BT: We live in the city, but if you do go 15 minutes in any direction, not towards the city, you end up being in the country. A lot of farmland and stuff not too far from us.
CC: Nashville is like a big circle, we’re on the west side of the circle. If you go outside of the circle, which is not really that big, it’s just like hills and trees and stuff.
BT: It’s nice. The nature is so pretty, but politically, it’s a little bit crazy. In Tennessee, it’s the South, so it’s funny. You have the prettiest land, but then some of the meanest people living on the prettiest land, a lot of unhappy people. I feel like it can be pretty closed off.
CC: There’s a lot of good people, too.
BT: Yeah, totally. It’s a good place. I think there’s just a lot going on with abortion stuff here, gun rights, very extreme kind of politics.
It’s really full on. Watching it unfold in the news from over here in Australia, seeing a lot of the stuff that’s happening in the US, things like a lot of books being banned that relate to identity, race, gender…
BT: Especially in Tennessee, that’s a very big thing in the South. But what’s cool about it is that Nashville itself is such a hub of diverse people, and so the community within Nashville is so strong because the surrounding areas can be a little bit..
CC: Yeah, Nashville, I would say, is very blue.
BT: Yeah, totally. So that’s great in a way, you know, when you live in a not so great place, but you have a great community of people.
CC: Yeah. There’s not really much of a punk scene, there’s a lot of young kids who are really excited, but they’re just not starting bands. Kind of unfortunate.
BT: People, I feel right now, want to move away from Tennessee because politics are so crazy here. The people that are staying and trying to really maintain the community, that’s really important right now.
Yeah. Do you think you guys will stay in Tennessee for now?
BT: Yeah. I’m from California originally. My parents moved out here not too long ago, and I’m very close with my mom, so we’ll be here for a while.
CC: I’m from middle Tennessee, so I’ve just been here forever. I would love to move away someday, but we have a pretty good thing going here.
BT: And it’s a small town in a way, everywhere you go you know each other, so that feels nice.
Yeah, that’s like what Brisbane and the Gold Coast is kind of like.. Sydney and Melbourne are a lot bigger and more spread out, but here where we are it’s really nice.
BT: That’s awesome. The only thing that I wish we had is a beach; we do not have a beach.
CC: It’s very hot and humid. Especially like today, it was a very thick heat. It’s nice, though.
BT: The bugs are really loud in Tennessee, there are certain things where it’s like, you know you’re in Tennessee when…
CC: Yeah. We have chickens and stuff like that.
BT: People seem to have all kinds of fun nature projects in Australia.
There’s so many cool things happening all the time. I’m glad that I get to be a part of it all. Connor, I know that you’ve played in about a million bands: Body Cam, Chainshot, Brothers, G.U.N., Pissbath, Safety Net, Sex Hotel, Vacant Future, Soft Option, and you’re Spodee Boy.
CC: Yeah, that’s true. Brothers and Vacant Future, those are like deep cuts. That’s cool that you know about them.
What inspired you to start making music?
CC: Growing up, I always liked fast, aggressive music, and would go to shows. I definitely always wanted to start. Where I’m from is like, 30 minutes from Nashville, it’s a college town, and they wouldn’t really be punk shows, but there would just be lots of house shows all the time. When I was 14 and 15, I would tell my parents I was going out and I would go to house shows. Everyone was really supportive of younger people going to shows. It was a really inspiring thing. I wanted to start my own band, and I wasn’t really good at an instrument, so that’s how Pissbath started. It was a noise punk band, and so I was learning how to play guitar, but I had a lot of distortion pedals, so I could hide it a little bit. After that band happened, I just kept trying to learn new instruments and then did Vacant Future on bass and Brothers on drums. After a while, after I learned a little bit on each instrument, that’s when I started doing Spodee Boy and putting them all together.
I’m so glad you have, because with Spodee Boy and Snõõper, I love that it combines so much stuff I love. It’s like there’s no rules with what you do.
CC: Thank you. Sometimes it’s hard because I feel like people can’t really relate, but I guess I don’t really mind because I’m just doing it for me. I like a lot of post-punk, and stuff like the Gun Club; that comes out a lot in the Spodee Boy stuff, which is really fun for me. Sometimes I feel like it’s not hardcore enough for really punk people and then it’s too, I don’t know, sometimes I feel like my friends don’t really understand, but I love it.
I’m so glad that you’ve done it. Even if your friends don’t understand.
CC: Snõõper is the most fun band I’ve ever been in, because it’s just me and Blair.
BT: Connor likes to record his own music, do all the instruments and do specific things, which I understand because I like to do my own visual stuff. I have no experience with music so he can really be creative in that way. I write the lyrics and do the vocals, but mostly I do that so that I have a place to show the puppets and the things that I make. We work really well together because we both really let each other do our own thing within the band, which is nice.
CC: Yeah. I guess what I was saying about Spodee Boy too, it’s not really about my friends minding too much, but sometimes it gets kind of lonely because it’s just you all the time. It’s great because you have complete creative control, and then sometimes in bands I’ve been in where it’s been too many people, there’s too much going on and people can’t make decisions and stuff. Just me and Blair has been the perfect balance because we live together and we’ve been together a long time. We can just be like, “Hey, what do you think of this idea?” And we’ll just be like, “Yeah, let’s do it!” Versus talking to five people about something.
BT: What’s important to him isn’t necessarily important to me. So he’s like, “I made this song.” I’m like, “That sounds awesome! I made this random puppet or prop or whatever…” so we combine them and it works out well.
I love that. Creative couples are my favourite. That’s like me and my husband. It’s just us two that do all the Gimmie stuff.
CC: Yeah. That’s awesome. It’s a beautiful zine.
BT: So special.
CC: We had a small shop, just kind of like a distro for a little bit, and we carried Gimmie. They were great. They’re beautiful zines.
BT: We were very thrilled when you asked us for an interview. It felt like a big honour. When we were getting your zines in the shop, we were only open for a little bit, but people were like, “I have to get the new one!” whenever we’d post about getting it in. People were so excited.
Awww, that’s awesome to know that there’s people in Tennessee are reading Gimmie!
BT: Yeah, it’s great. I was going to say, one more thing that makes living together with someone that you’re in a creative thing with so cool is, we just leave everything out, it’s become part of our life having the props out and the music stuff out.
CC: We run a small label together too, called Electric Outlet, so there’s always stuff scattered everywhere around the house..
BT: Then you can just pick stuff up and make something, like, “Let’s make a video!” and it’s right in front of me. That feels nice.
Totally. That’s exactly what we do as well. Jhonny built me my own art space area because I was putting too much glitter over his area, because I use a lot of glitter in my art, the Gimmie collages I make.
CC: That’s awesome.
Yeah. I like using things that people often say is kids’ stuff. They say, “That’s not real art stuff.” I’m like, ‘Well, it is!’
CC: We’re big fans of that. We totally understand. Blair does so much papier-mâché and all kinds of crazy stuff.
BT: I love that stuff. I’m a teacher, so I work with young kids, and the way that they get excited about just stickers or whatever little thing, it’s amazing. So I’m really big into anything that’s fun, it’s awesome.
Totally. How did you guys first meet?
CC: We met when I was playing in Vacant Future, and the guitarist Blair was dating at the time, we have been friends for a really long time…
BT: Yeah, it was really nice because me and this guy broke up and then Connor was just still my friend after, even though I had been dating one of his friends. And then we were friends first and he dated other people and I dated other people. Then one day we were like, wait, we always end up hanging out with each other, though. And then it just went from there.
CC: Yeah, we’ve been dating for six years, but we’ve been friends for about nine.
Just having someone that understands being creative is the best if you’re a creative. Because when you with someone that’s not, they just don’t get it.
CC: Yeah, we’ve talked about that a lot.
BT: It’s hard to even imagine, honestly, because everything for us feels so normal that sometimes I have to take a step back and be like, wow, this is totally not what the majority of people do in their relationships. But to us, we come home and we’re really deeply immersed in our projects that we have going on. It means so much to us, but to anyone else it doesn’t mean anything at all, probably. It’s funny and it’s a nice thing to have with someone.
Snõõper originally started as a recording project? You didn’t think you’d ever do it live?
CC: We really weren’t sure. It was cool because Blair had been doing animations for a while and she’d done an animation for Spodee Boy and some other friends bands, and did a Liquids one. She was making animations during COVID and I just had the 8-track over here and we were like, “Okay, let’s just try…”
BT: I was trying to learn how to play drums, so I was like, “Play music with me, play music with me!” I never really took drums that seriously. It was like the fourth or fifth time I’ve been trying to learn. Then we were playing music more often together and I was making more videos and we were like, “Let’s just do a song.”
CC: It was good because it was also a break for me with recording. Before Snõõper, I used to be like, if I record it, I want it to sound almost identical live. I don’t want it to sound like a different band or be like worse or something. And so there was like a sense of when we started using the drum machine, I was like, I don’t know, we can never play this live. We’re never going to be able to bring the drum machine and do all this stuff. But then it was good because creatively, I started being like, well, let’s write whatever we want and let’s not worry about playing live, let’s just plan to never play live, then we don’t have limitations on the music.
BT: Totally. We could sound as crazy as we want if we never feel like we’re going to play it live.
CC: We got more and more excited about it. That’s kind of become what the LP [Super Snõõper] is. The way I look at it now is the seven inches are like our demos, because when we recorded them, we were like, wow, these are fast!, and now the way we play them live, it’s like double speed. Cam, our drummer rewrote all the drum machine parts and wrote them his way. So the LP to me feels like a totally different band from just me and Blair on the 8-track.
BT: As soon as we did start playing live, it was a whole different thing because obviously we had live members and everything. We were really nervous to play live at first. I remember the pandemic ending and feeling like now we have to. The pandemic went on for so long, and there was no live music for so long. It was three months, then four months, then a year, and then we kept getting crazier and crazier with the home recording stuff. We’re like, surely it’ll never end, and then it did and we’re like, oh, no.
CC: I remember when we started playing live, our set was like ten minutes because we were nervous to integrate the drum machine songs. I remember being in the practice space and starting to sweat and being like, “Oh, yeah, you just got to play like this.” And they were like, “What do you mean?” And we were kind of all stressed out. Now it’s a breeze. Now we know how to write with everything and it’s great. But I remember at the start of the band, when we were prepping for our first show, we were just like, I don’t know if this is going to sound.
BT: We would record it and be like, ‘We only have eleven minutes worth of music!’ It worked out, ultimately. I’m glad we played live.
CC: I would also see a lot of the bands, like American bands, that are kind of inspiring to Kel and Ishka, like The Coneheads and stuff like that. And sometimes, specifically the one time I saw the Coneheads, it didn’t sound like the recording and it really bummed me out. I was like, oh, people have this expectation for these 8-track artists and it sounds so good on recording and then you see it live and you’re disappointed. I was always really afraid with Snõõper. I was like, I don’t ever want people to be like, they can’t play that fast. We were really nervous. We were like, if it doesn’t represent the music correctly, then this is a total failure.
BT: Yeah, I remember feeling like a lot of those bands in that early scene. They seemed tired while they were playing their songs or a lot of the recordings were so fast and kind of sped up and then you’d see them and they didn’t have the energy. I remember feeling really stressed about that and coming out of COVID people were so excited to see live music again and everything felt really intense. I would go on runs and try to prepare and was like, we’re not going to be able to keep up!
CC: Yeah, we tried really hard. We would take big breaks from drinking and we would just practise all the time and we really wanted to be as fast live as we are on the recordings.
BT: We felt like we would look like posers if we didn’t because we built up hype a little bit too over COVID.. we were making videos, people were seeing our stuff, and then it was like, either we never play or we have to play really good. It was an interesting transition to playing live, for sure.
CC: The pressure was kind of on too. Well, not on, but it felt like we were coming up with kind of the post-Coneheads American punk scene. Prison Affair was starting. Kel had been doing Gee Tee since Spodee Boy days, but then you could kind of see the change where he started going in a specific direction and it was like Gee Tee, Prison Affair, Research Reactor Corp, Snõõper… It felt like we were all in this scene together and we all had the same ideas.
BT: Well, I think also a difference between the American style of this music and the Australian style that Gee Tee and all those bands are doing, is the American egg punk bands were really anti-social, in my opinion. It’s great, but it wasn’t super fun. But all the Australian bands that are doing this style, they’re fun, they party.
CC: Yeah, in America. I felt like, not to name specific names, but there are a couple of people who are doing home recordings who you would meet them in real life and you’d be like, ‘I’m so excited to meet you! You’re kind of like a hero to me.’ And they’d be like, “Oh, cool..”, and kind of like cool-guy you and they had to stay mysterious or something, it was a huge bummer. It was really not fun. It made everyone not really like each other. I feel like in the Australian scene everyone’s really good friends and even if they do their own recordings, like Ishka does Tee Vee Repairmann stuff, it’s still like a community. Here it’s very divided. Like, the Liquids person doesn’t really hang out with the Lumpy and the Dumpers person; Lumpy and the Dumpers person doesn’t really hang out with the Coneheads person. And everyone’s kind of jealous of each other. It’s a very strange thing.
BT: It’s just this thing of like, “I’m weirder than you..”
CC: “I’m weirdest and most anti-social.” It kind of sucks all the fun out of it.
BT: There’s also an element in America where it’s like, “Oh, you took your home recordings and then now people are listening to them? You’ve sold out!” And that’s such a funny thing. For us, we’ve always wanted to just have fun with it and there’s not much thought, and I think that’s the same with what we’ve seen in the Australian scene, it’s great. Everyone has been so welcoming and just down to have a good time together.
CC: I feel like I owe a lot of Snõõper to Billy (Research Reactor Corp) because in the past, any of my bands, I always thought you always do the band thing in a certain way; you do a demo tape, then you do maybe a second demo tape, and you get a seven inch record, then maybe in three years you put out an LP. But, we only had two songs recorded, and Billy was like, “I want to do a seven inch.” And I was like, ‘Wow, he wants to put out a seven inch! We don’t even have that many songs yet.’ It was really cool, and then it was like, ‘Alright, now we’re going to take this really seriously.’ He kind of kicked us into gear. The support from everyone in Sydney really kind of started the band because we didn’t really have much support at home.
BT: That’s why I felt, like I said earlier, it’s like we’re coming home in a way. I know that sounds so weird because we’ve never been to Australia, but everyone has been so nice to us. It’s been awesome. It’s like the origin of Snõõper.
CC: When we were discussing this summer, we were technically offered stuff in Europe first and some other places and we were just like, ‘No, we just want to go to hang out with our friends in Australia.’ That was the number one goal. We were like, ‘We can do all that other stuff later but this is what we need to do now.’
Yeah, I can’t wait to see your live shows! I see all online videos and it just looks like the most fun ever.You look at everyone, you’re having fun, the crowd is having fun.
BT: I always feel like if people are spending their time and money coming to a show, it should be a party.
CC: Growing up and playing in hardcore bands, Chainshot and stuff like that, I really love playing hardcore music, but Blair pointed out it’s not really fun for everyone else because it’s just so mean sometimes. I still think it’s really fun to play really fast and tight, but it’s cool to make it fun for everyone and not just aggressive and angry.
BT: Punk and hardcore sometimes, I like all of that because at least everyone’s really intense in some way. But sometimes I feel like if you put any effort into anything, like the outfits, having any thought goes along way. I feel like the littlest things can make a difference in a live show. It’s like magic to me. When I see people playing music, I’m like, wow! I’m blown away.
CC: Yeah. Blair really changed my whole perspective as a musician in Snõõper, I’d never really thought about having props or anything. At first I was like, ‘Oh, props… we’re a gimmick or something.’ Now I understand. I don’t think I could go back to doing a band that doesn’t have some kind of visual element. I love Kel from Gee Tee wears a mask, or having some kind of outfit, makes it better than just seeing four people be really good at their instruments. The props and visual elements have changed my perspective on performing.
I couldn’t imagine Snõõper without that visual element and all the other fun things like your videos. Every time I watch your videos there’s so much to look at, so much happening, you pick up different things every time you watch it.
CC: That’s awesome. We were looking at an old picture the other day, and we were wearing matching tracksuits, the guitarists do that now; we were looking at one of our first shows and we’re all in t-shirts and jeans. We were like, ‘This seems like a different band.’
BT: ‘This seems wrong! How did we ever play like this?’ [laughs].
CC: It’s been happening for about six months, we kind of accidentally started doing choreography. We would be at practice and one person would kick at a certain time and then everyone else in the band would be like, ‘We’ll do that.’ Then we kept working on it and someone would turn to the left at a certain time. And then we’re like, ‘Oh, let’s all do that.’ Now we’ve got stage moves! [laughs].
Previously you’ve mentioned how you just do whatever you want to do and people have no expectations of you. Now that you’ve signed to Third Man Records for your debut record Super Snõõper that’s coming out soon, and it seems like lots of people are finding out about you; how does it feel that people do care now?
CC: It’s strange. It doesn’t feel really that different yet because when we signed with Third Man, we basically were like, we’re going to be really controlling still about everything. We changed all the art to exactly how we want it. We involved all of our friends from before. Like Ian Teeple, who did the second seven inch cover; he made the insert. Our friends from New York, who do a lot of posters for us, made the inner labels. We had to include everyone that’s been a part of this.
BT: What we care about now is keeping our original vibe the same.
CC: We don’t want it to seem like anything has changed, because nothing has.
BT: I do think it’s gotten more overwhelming. There’s a lot more emails, which is so hard for me personally, but Connor does a great job with all of that. Navigating this new element has been stressful because we really did go into this without any thought at all. So this was never something that we were like, we really want this and we’re prepared for, but it’s been great and we’ve been learning a lot. Connor does most of the booking, he’s basically the manager of the band, which he never wanted to do going into it.
CC: Yeah, I think we really won’t relinquish control because if we ever do, then the band is kind of over. It’s our baby that we made.
BT: My mind is completely not thinking about what people are expecting of us, I’m just more focused on getting things done.
CC: A lot of our friends work at Third Man Records, so it doesn’t feel like there’s any pressure. They all know us, and they know we’re going to do it exactly how we want to, for better or worse.
BT: But Third Man has been so helpful. We have all of the props around everywhere. Let me see if you can see this big phone [pans camera to giant papier-mâché phone in their living room] it’s all gotten bigger and crazier. Third Man has really helped us out because we were having to rent vans and stuff to go to even just local shows. They’ve lent us their van to go to a show. It’s been great.
The craziest part of all of this is that we are here making these crazy puppets and stuff, literally just for fun, and now people are giving us money to help us out with like, ‘Oh, you want a music video?’
How did you first become interested in puppets?
BT: I’ve been doing papier-mâché for a really long time and I used to just make random stuff. Actually, I would make a lot of masks, they would fit on your head, just have a hole on the top, it’s just hollow. I would think it was funny to put them on and take pictures around the house. My friends would come over and we just thought it was so funny. I was doing that for a long time. I really like Bread and Puppet Theatre; they’re a lot like Snuff Puppets. They make these huge puppets. We were looking at a video of theirs online one day and I was like, ‘Wait, I could just make a puppet backpack.’ So now it’s like this big PVC pipe thing and the heads fit on top of that and you wear it like a backpack and it has a big long pole. They’re really tall and you can move around in them.
CC: I was trying to think of how we got to the puppets. I guess one of the first things was actually the video game. [Turns to giant papier-mâché arcade machine sitting behind them].
BT: That was the first prop. We have a papier-mâché weight. It was really funny because the weight was the first thing that we used and people were so responsive. When I would bring out the weight on stage, people were like [does funny actions] and it was just fun. We started wanting more moments like that with the audience.
CC: I used to get in trouble at the beginning of the band because people would be so excited that I would throw the weight out in the crowd and they would go crazy, but then it would just get destroyed.
BT: ..and I’d be like, ‘No, I have to make another one!’
CC: They would tear it apart in like two seconds.
Is that the same weight that’s in the ‘Fitness’ video clip?
BT: Yeah. I’ve probably made 30 of them now…
Wow!
BT: Someone would get excited and throw it off the stage or someone would grab it, and it was always chaos. Now I’m a little bit more protective over it, and I place it behind the drums when I’m done with it. Everything is so delicate because it’s all just papier-mâché. In the back of the van, it’s just me constantly being like, ‘Oh, no, what was that?!?’ And then having to get out the hot glue gun or make repairs on the way.
CC: That’s a funny thing that’s kind of been brought up recently, the guitarists all have our pedal bags and stuff, and then Blair now has this big bag that has duct tape, glue gun, paint, all this stuff; that’s her pedal bag [laughs].
BT: Everything is very lightweight. People will come pick up the props, like these big guys, and then they’re like, “Wow, it’s really light.” And I’m like, ‘It is, it’s all paper!’
What’s the story behind the cover image on Super Snõõper?
CC: That image is from outside of a venue here called, Soft Junk. That’s an art space that’s really cool. That’s where we do all of our shows; the sound is good and it’s DIY.
BT: It’s the best space!
CC: Everybody can bring their own beer. It’s a really cool venue. You’ve maybe seen it in pictures; it’s got two stories. It’s really fun. There’s giant hands in the background. There’s a picture of us playing live, well it’s not actually of any of us, but it’s a picture of The Bug, and he’s in the crowd.
BT: We love that picture so much!
CC: We thought that picture was so cool. We were like, we should recreate this for the album…
BT: But with everyone in tracksuits, because we had been wearing tracksuits for a while at that point. We got there and then we started doing all the shots in the exact way we had envisioned them and immediately we were like, ‘Oh no, this looks like a cult photo or something.’ It got real spooky real fast. The photographer was so sweet. She’s like, “Everybody hold hands around The Bug.” She’d be like, “Put the hoods up. Put your hands down.” We were like, ‘This looks so weird.’ So we kind of tried to loosen up and go outside for a couple of shots.
CC: Everyone was taking a break and the photographer was like, “Hey, let’s just try some out here.” It just looked cooler.
BT: You should have seen the first ones, it was cult Bug worship [laughs].
Figure by Miguel Gomez.
All the songs on Super Snõõper are from other releases except for all the ‘Stretching’ kind of sample interludes…
BT: Yeah. The way we do the live set now is that we don’t stop in between songs, but we have to tune, so we started making samples that go in between the songs to give us 30 seconds to tune our guitars, take a sip of our beer and then get ready for the next song. All the ‘Stretching’ parts are samples that we’ve made at home.
Do you have a favourite sample you’ve used?
CC: The second one. I actually don’t know the song we took it from, but it’s an old country song. The lyrics are: all the roads lead back to Nashville. It’s really funny because sometimes I think people don’t really know where we’re from, they think we’re from LA or something [laughs]. No, we’re actually from Nashville. People are always really surprised. I like to keep the hometown pride going.
There’s also the Suburban Lawns cover you do!
CC: Yeah. All the other songs are from the seven inches except for the cover of ‘Unable’ by Suburban Lawns. The set is laid out in a specific way where all the songs should flow. There’s the intro sample, then there’s ‘Bed Bugs’ which goes into ‘Pod’ which goes into ‘Fitness’. Then there’s the break and it’s kind of like mini sets. The first three songs should all be listened to kind of back-to-back. The middle four songs should all be listened to back-to-back. Live, it all flows.
BT: We’ve put a lot of thought into our live set, which is what the layout or the track listing on the record reflects, how we play it live. It’s very specific because we want to keep our stamina and energy up and we’ve calculated what’s feasible in this first set.
CC: It’s almost more of a theatrical play or performance. We can’t really switch up the songs. When people come to multiple Snõõper shows, it’s usually like the same set. We might switch the first and middle song, but the set has to flow the right way to give you the full experience of how it’s supposed to be.
You re-recorded the songs for the album?
CC: Yes. On all the seven inches, it’s me on all the instruments and Blair singing and doing some of the samples. On the LP is the full band. Our bassist Happy and our drummer Cam, have added little parts and stuff…
BT: The songs are faster and have more energy because we feel more confident playing them now. I personally have had such a hard time listening to this record. There was a night where Connor and I came home, we put it off for a really long time listening to it, and we would send it to the rest of the band and be like, what do you guys think? And let them make edits. It’s kind of embarrassing to say, but it was so hard for us because it sounds so different than the way we first recorded them. We put off listening to it forever, and the rest of the band would be like, “Have you guys listened to the record?” And we just wouldn’t text back. So we had to listen and we didn’t even make it through the whole thing. As soon as it sounded a little bit funny to us, we were like, oh, we can’t do it.
CC: The demos were hastily recorded, I would record the song and then Blair would be like, I’m stoked, I’m going to do vocals right now. She would do vocals and then we would just upload it and not mix it or master it. We would rush it so fast because we were just so excited, and now….
BT: …now we’re thinking about it! So back to your question earlier, now we’re thinking about things and it’s just so hard. When we were doing it the first time, we weren’t thinking about it at all and it sounded perfect to us because there was no thought or expectation. It was great. Listening to this record we’re like, I wonder if people are going to like it.
CC: These songs now on the LP are like how they should be. Sometimes when I listen to the demos, I still really love the way they sound, but I’ll be like, that was a terrible drum take. I was just excited. So I was like, I don’t want to redo it, I just want to move on to the next thing.
BT: I’m confident in the way that the new record sounds and confident enough to not really overthink it.
CC: We did the LP recording in four days. We didn’t spend too much time on it. We only did one day of overdubs and we were like, let’s just do it like we do live and not think about it too much.
Did you record it yourself?
CC: The entire band recorded it.
BT: At our friend’s studio.
CC: Erik Nervous came down and mic’ed everything and produced a little bit.
Nice. I’ve seen lots of people online call Snõõper, nerd punk. I also saw a person had commented: This band is about to blow the fuck up.
BT: [Laughs] That’s so funny. It’s really nice. The internet community has been so nice. I’m always looking at comments being like, are they going to say something mean? And then people say such nice stuff. I’m shocked that everyone’s been as nice as they have. The internet has gotten nicer lately. Something is up [laughs]. There was a time where people were being so mean on the internet, lately we’ve experienced everyone being pretty nice on there.
That’s because you’ve made something amazing!
CC: Aw, thank you.
It sounds so cool. I had to get used to the album though, because I’m used to hearing the seven inches and then also seeing the live videos. The album seems more polished.
CC: It’s just because it wasn’t on the 8-track in our living room. I feel like in some ways it’s a little bit of a curse because we didn’t really mean for it to sound that lo-fi. I learn more about recording every time I record. We just put out the single ‘Waste’ right before the album and I was like, ‘Okay, only sounds like how I think the 8-track should sound.’
BT: We’re going to continue recording in the way that we always have, that’s the plan for Snõõper. Something we don’t want, is for people to listen to this and be like, ‘Oh, they’re doing something different now’—we’re not. The way we look at it is, this is for some people and then our 8-track or original recordings might be better, more geared for other people.
CC: We would show early recordings to people who didn’t get it and they would be like, “This sounds like shit recorded with your cell phone. This is terrible.” We were like, maybe we should make the record where it’s the same songs but just digestible for other people.
BT: There was a reddit thread that was so funny, our friend sent it to us and was like, ha ha; did you see this?
CC: It was like, “Would this band sound good if it didn’t sound like shit?” And they continued “It sounds like shit, but it works for them.” We were like, ‘Okay, that’s kind of a compliment, I guess.’
BT: We live pretty close to a music school called, Belmont. They do a lot of audio engineering. The thread on there was popping off. People were like, if it was really polished, it just wouldn’t be the same.
CC: We were aware of that, that’s why we were nervous about the LP. It was actually really scary. We were like, ‘Are we going to alienate everyone?’ And they’re going to be like, “Oh, they did big production. It’s not good anymore.” The response has been so good that I don’t care anymore. It is what it is. Can’t do anything about it now.
I read another comment online and they said that you sound like Ween.
BT: That’s the highest compliment. I love Ween. And Connor loves Ween now, too.
CC: We were listening to a lot of Ween when we made the second EP. Like ‘Fruit Fly’ is kind of a Ween song. And our covers that we do, I feel like, not ‘Unable’, but the ‘Come Together’ cover and ‘Bring Me Down’ are very Ween inspired.
Do you have a song on the LP that you really love?
BT: Let’s see, so ‘Fruit Fly’ is my favourite Snõõper song, but it’s not my favourite re-recorded song.
CC: I think ‘Powerball’ is my favourite off the album. I think it sounds way better in the demo.
BT: I mean, ‘Pod’ now sounds like a real song to me. I like ‘Pod’. It was our first single, I’m going to go with ‘Pod’.
Is there anything else you’d like to share with me?
BT: I think we’ve covered everything. Thank you so much for listening to us. We’ll be meeting you soon! We’re so excited.
Original photo: Jacob McCann. Handmade collage by B.
Lothario is here! And we couldn’t be more stoked. A new solo punk project from Naarm/Melbourne-based creative Annaliese Redlich, who is also the host of 3RRR radio show Neon Sunset; producer of podcast All Ears – exploring the ways music challenges, comforts and connects us; she’s also a DJ; AND she’s so much more as you’ll find out reading this conversation.
Lothario debuts with 7” single ‘Drunk Fuck / Black Hair’ – a vulnerable and agitated, raw expression of wildness. We’ve been lucky enough to also hear a sneak peek of her up coming full-length album, which we can attest, is filled with sharp-edged raucous expressions of love and personal power. Heavy underground hitters – Ishka aka Tee Vee Repairmann and Rob Craig aka Buck Biloxi feature on tracks. There’s all kinds of legends in her current live band too.
Annaliese recently stopped by Gimmie HQ for a long yarn about her world. There were tears, joy and laughter, as she shared her story of how she got to where she’s at and where she’s going next.
What’s life been like for you lately?
ANNALIESE: It’s a really wonderful place to start. I feel like life has been at warp speed for me lately. I’ve been finally feeling like so much stuff in my life has been opening up and calling for action from me, in ways and places that will just keep growing. My biggest desire as an energetic person, is to follow through on all of those things. I’m also finally learning a bit of rhythm with my creativity, I’m getting to understand the libido of my creativity. Before, it used to be this thing that kind of jumped through the window and surprised me or affected me at certain times in my life heartbreak and loss. Now it’s its own existing creature that is very active. So, life lately has felt very fast but good, not out of control.
Isn’t it great when creativity comes, almost like a calling, you get this feeling, and you just feel compelled to do it. You have to!
A: That situation has allowed me to be my truest self. I’ve often questioned it, but I’ve just done it anyway, and it’s kind of alarming. But it’s also really good to know that this little thing is stirring inside of you like a magnet, pulling you through all of your own layers of bullshit or self-understanding or terrible narrative towards the thing that is most important for you to do, even if it’s kind of scary or ugly or concerning, or doesn’t often look like it’s going to be the most amazing thing you’ve done. But then a while later you’re like, oh yeah, my compass was working. That was good.
Yeah, previously you’ve mentioned about how you sometimes might have an opportunity, but you realise that it’s not the right time.
A: Yeah. You could say that with relationships too. Timing is everything. If you’re talking about getting something in your life from A to B, if a journey or an experience has got to be linear like, that, cool, I started here and I ended up there; I don’t think life really works like that.
I know in my creative life, in my journey of self-understanding, it’s like it’s all about creating new neural pathways. Maybe it won’t be by the time that I reach that endpoint or reach that next phase that I wanted to, but something else really fucking cool or interesting will happen on the way that will inform me about a whole other landscape that I need to be a part of. You got to be philosophical like that.
You’re originally from Meeanjin/Brisbane?
A: Yeah. Born in Brisbane, moved to Melbourne to finish uni and to just feel a closer connection with music at my fingertips. I hung out in various punk scenes there. I’d go to The Art House all the time, seeing every possible show, and DIY shows across Melbourne.
The first kind of biggest unconscious pull for me, well, other than going to Melbourne, was starting to volunteer at Triple R radio. I loved listening to the radio but I had zero interest in being on it. In terms of having any kind of on air engagement, I was terrified actually. Even going in and volunteering to help out on phones, because I was like, oh, there’s going to be all these cool music people there, and everyone’s going to be probably a wanker, just too cool for me. whatever, let alone any thought about doing on air stuff. The second that I got there, not only did I feel completely comfortable, but in the most sort of surprising way. I was around so many different kinds of people, all with this common pull to this great place that allowed a diversity of being and expression. They were just like, do a read on air and do a graveyard slot. And I was like, no, okay, they kept harassing me. I felt very lucky to be asked to do that stuff, but had zero self confidence with it. Then I was like, wait a minute, I’ve always collected records, I’ve always played music. I did some DJ nights in Brisbane with my rock and roll records. I thought, oh, wait, why can’t I do it? Why not me? Yeah, sure. Not many people get that chance. Not many people get that level of egging on. That turned into a year of a radio show, then two years of a radio show. Now I’m up to nine years, through a few different time slots, which is wild.
Now I’m a podcast producer, it’s shape me now as an audio producer. I have just learned how to multi-track through that and produce the 7” single for Lothario. I’ll be putting out a full record at the end of year, too. It all comes from that, so it’s wild.
We’re really excited for it. I was listening to the Lothario tracks you sent through and I’ve seen some live vids online stuff. It feels like it’s a really powerful project for you. It seems like you’re really stepping into yourself and your own power. Lothario has a real hypersexual-vibe that’s coming from a place of empowerment and self-definition…
A: And, hyper-aggression and hyper-vulnerability. It’s great to hear you say that. It really feels like that for me and that’s not something that I actually anticipated or thought about. The fact that anyone else would pick up on that or care about it means a lot. That was a really beautiful insight.
When I first started this, I had a flood of music ideas at the end of the year last year. I always had this dream to do it. I love playing in bands. I love the energy of other people in the way that, an idea that I might have, when I play it with a group of people or someone brings in a part or mishears it and it changes; it turns into this beautiful other thing. Collaboration, has always been so important to me. But I’ve also just always wondered what it would be like to take something 100% on my shoulders. How maybe that process could happen in myself; what would it feel like to be actually in control of the tool that you’re using and create what it was that was in your mind. I never thought I could do that.
I always wanted to do this kind of multi-tracked, very organic, not kind of clean or clinical in a production sense, but create something with samples or live guitar and vocals. I just always reach this point of I can’t figure it out; I can’t finish the song. Or I finish the composition, but I can’t fucking make it how I want it. I’ve done one guitar track. I’d managed to do some bass in there, but I can’t do the drums – it was this gaffer tape and rubber band situation that did my head in and I gave up. My creative process got totally stifled and the libido got crushed out of it.
When I sat down to have another crack at it, and I wasn’t even consciously doing it, I was like, I’ve got this riff. Cool. Oh, well, I can use Pro Tools now, and I know how to do that because I’ve created podcast series. I thought surely I can give it a go. I don’t know drums, so I’ll just like, bang on the table to do a metronome for it. Wait, I got an idea for a vocal line plugged in. And it’s like, oh, cool. That feels good.
I got talking to my friend Rob Craig in Louisiana, who’s a musician called Buck Biloxi, he’s sort of a (I will say this in kind of hilarious inverted quotes) “elder statesman” of New Orleans punk. He’s a kind of one man band situation himself, but has had a lot of groups Buck Biloxi and the Fucks and Giorgio Murderer. He was like, ‘I’d love to hear your music.’ And I was like, oh, I can’t. No one’s hearing it. It’s very private. I can’t play drums. He’s like, ‘You can figure it out.’
I sent him the tracks, and I was just like, oh, my gosh. Because while he’s a mate, I really hold him in very high esteem. And I was just going through this point in my life where my inner narrative was like, everything you do sucks. Don’t hide your vulnerable self from the world. Do you know how that works? How about you try the other thing? I was actively going through this thing of, yes, but maybe I’ll do the opposite. I thought he was probably going to hate them. Oh, my god.
He wrote back straight away and was really into it.He said, ‘Can I record some drums for you? Would you like that?’ I was like, yeah! He did, and it just worked. Then I was getting flooded with these ideas and had this set up in my living room.
Lothario is a character. I’m not just hypersexual. I’m not just hyper-angry. I’m also vulnerable. I’m all of these things. I’m not hiding, I don’t want to hide anymore. I don’t have like an instrument to hide behind either [laughs].
I’ve done lots of musical projects, mostly in the punk, garage, rock and roll realms, but also, at the same time as doing that, I was the front woman for a late 50s to mid 60s soul and R&B-style band, singing like Etta James. We were called Anna-Lee & the Double Lovers. I did that from 2000 – kind of a foundational Jamaican ska and rocksteady classics thing, not so much Motown. I started it with a bunch of guys that I knew who were all professional players. But we’re all these record nerds because I love collecting 45s. I love that music! There’s all of these amazing tracks, like B-side tracks that nobody knows and they’re the most heartbreaking, gut-wrenching, incredible songs. And we all had these records and I was like, oh, let’s get together.!
I love that idea of putting on a glitter gown and creating a show. I would do my hair in a beehive. And the guys had the right gear, the right amps, and we really worked on the sound. I love performing a show and playing a character. Having nowhere to hide because I was just out the front was really challenging. It was about becoming a better singer. It’s hard work. I love getting physical and being present. I feel I do struggle with the guitar, so I feel a little bit hogtied. So doing this is kind of a bit more freeing. All these Lothario songs, it’s the most exciting, most validating or satisfying thing I’ve ever done.
The live band is Billiam and Locke, who plays with Billiam a lot. Moose from The Uglies is going to play bass and Sarah Hardiman wants to join on guitar for a couple of shows. And, Steph Crase (Skid City, Fair Maiden, Batrider) from Summer Flake. I’ve looked up to them for so long. While I really want to build a relationship, I love these people and I love having people want to be involved in making music with me, particularly this music; I love the idea of it not being the way I started this. Why do we have to be wedded to the same players? It’s important to get the right mix of people. I might even get to play love with my mate Rob from Rob New Orleans that I mentioned. What an honour. How exciting. We’ll see how Lothario evolves.
It must be really liberating to have project that’s so fluid!
A: Yeah. I am going to the States for a couple of months at the end of the year and I already have an American touring band. We’re going to do some dates there, probably in the southern parts. I have mates in LA and New York that could do some shows or I could do some shows, just me, OG Lothario.
Once I realised that the worst demons are the ones that you carry yourself and nobody probably says things bad about you as you bad as you say about yourself… once you can fucking sit down and take a good hard look at that stuff in you, that’s haunting you and holding you back, or can reframe that in good directions for you, then the rest, is pretty easy.
Yeah, you have to do the work. if you look at yourself and you do it honestly (I’ve done that myself in the last few years) and you work on that doubting self-talk and things that haunt you and a finally live your life in the truth, all the best things start to happen for you. There’s a confidence that comes with truth, there’s no my truth, only the truth.
A: It really does. It’s so true. I see a counsellor. I thought I was living in my truth. I was always looking for that truth. There’s a level of confusing shit that you have to go through sometimes to figure out which way your compass points.
I’m always in awe of many of the musicians that we know and love through Gimme that you highlight that are in great bands that really resonate, especially younger people. It’s not about popularity, it’s about, these people are in their skin. You can tell that they’re in their creative skin really early.
Photo: Jacob McCann.
I’m always impressed by passionate people, especially those that find what they love young, dedicate themselves to it, and stay the course. A lot of people in life don’t even know what they’re passionate about, if anything. What made you choose the name, Lothario?
A: It’s kind of a joke! I’m aware that “Lothario” is an attractive man who swindles women out of whatever they have that they want, ruthlessly and in cold blood. I’m interested to know why there’s the double standard of women in music, of the way that our sexuality is presented (I can’t believe we still have to fucking talk about this, by the way) but the fact that if you’re up on stage and performing publicly you’re in the gaze, but you’re not doing it for the gaze. So many things are asked, and are expected, of women and people presenting as women that aren’t even questioned with men. I guess I’m taking stock of my own sexuality and sexual drive. Sometimes people are well-meaning but other times dickheads come up to me, and ask me, ‘Oh, did you write all of that?’
That’s just gross. People would never go up to a male musician and ask if he writes all the songs.
A: Yeah. It’s like thanks for the compliment, you’re essentially saying that you like the riffs, you like the song, you like the chorus. That’s cool, but would you say that to a dude? You fucking wouldn’t.
You’ve told me in previous bands you’d mostly write about love and heartache; is that still the case with Lothario?
A:Yeah. I was going through a tremendous amount of heartache and writing about it. Processing soul crushing heartbreak stuff, and also the potential spark of love again.
I may call my LP this, Loser Songs For Lovers or Love Songs For Losers. It’s not an entirely original idea, but the record is like a trajectory of heartbreak from, like, holy fuck, I don’t even know who you are in a relationship anymore, and where did you go? Then the crushing devastating loneliness and sadness, grief. And, I’m going to go out hook up and crush a beer can against my head. I was kind of leaning into that character of the stupid bloke that you see out in the street on countless strip malls, in countless capital cities every Friday/Saturday night, just charging around, fucking and fighting. I found I have a fair bit of that in me [laughs]. I’ve never fought people, but in my own level of intensity and energy, gone out and destroyed myself. It’s like, oh, gosh, here I am in this incredibly emotionally vulnerable state, and I go out with my couple of my mates, just out all night doing naughty things, but kind of hurting ourselves. What if I made that into a character and it’s just even questioning in myself, am I questioning that because I’m a woman and I shouldn’t be doing that? What if I was a lad, a bloke? I’d be fucking celebrating it. I’m going to fucking fight tonight. Yeah, all right! You just need that no nonsense anthem to charge to, which is a bit of what this is about.
What was the first song that you totally followed through on and finished?
I finished ‘Black Hair’ and ‘Drunk Fuck’ pretty much at the same time. Those songs will be a 7”. It was important to me to pair those because it was a prolific period.
‘Drunk Fuck’ is: Six ft-something with nothing to say / But Saturday night it’ll be okay / Bored and horny, getting dumber by the day / It’s Saturday night in the USA / It’ll be okay / You look all right in the blacklight / Come on and touch me up and give me that drunk fuck. Just fucking take, take, smash, smash!
‘Black Hair’ is about being shut down and shut off, and then seeing that very unexpected spark with someone. Like, whoa! What was that? Do I trust this? No, I don’t trust this. I’ve been here before. Fuck. I don’t want to, but could this be it? Could this be it? It’s a sign. That door is starting to open. And maybe you’re letting that light in a little bit. It was funny to me that I wrote those both at the same time because they were both things that were happening and they’re still both happening.
So you’re still working on tracks for the full-length album; the ones I’ve heard are demo versions?
A: They might not even be. I’ve got another six, so I don’t know. There’s offers to put out 7”’s on other labels, then I’ve got Under The Gun I’ve just confirmed for an LP for around the end of the year.
That’s so exciting. You put a snippet up on your instagram of song ‘Doggy’, which we love.
A: Originally I was going to call it ‘Good Dog’. Ishka from Tee Vee Repairmann plays drums on that one.
Awesome! Ishka is the loveliest and so talented. Do you have a favourite song you’ve written?
A: One of my favourites on the album is labelled as ‘OD’ or ‘Overdrawn’. ‘Overdrawn’ is: Headed out tonight, won’t stop till the daylight / Pretend that you are dead, wish we’d never met / Overdrawn and I’m outta my head an dI feel like shit.It’s really about self-punishing. There’s no libido in that, actually.
A lot of the narrative of the album is about self-loathing and punishing yourself; is there a moment where things change for the positive?
A: Yeah. Kind of stuff with ‘Black Hair’. It’s a bit sweet, but there’s still a whole lot of jdark.
Song ‘Hogtied’ is musically quite dark, it’s all about breaking up with the self. It’s looking inwards. Although, it’s named because my best friend and I sing the Hog’s Breath Cafe theme song to each other a lot, and we were talking about Hogs Breath Cafe. But really, it’s looking inwards and asking; what do I have to do to be enough? What do I have to do to if I do this? If I do that? If I break the crown and kill the king will that wipe the doubt that lies within?
It’s about a dream that I had ten years ago where it was actually, this whole aesthetic of Lothario. I went to sleep one night and I woke up differently the next day. This huge thing in my consciousness had shifted with it, and I wrote it out. It was about the most gruesome gory battle that I had to face of killing the king, who was like my beloved father. I was small and not the same grandeur as him. I pulled out this little tiny knife and I just ended it. There was a lot going on for me at that time, but it’s the insight that I’ve gotten at different points in my life. My dreams are very important to me, and very powerful.
Very much like the dreamer! Proud of you and this project, Lothario, Annaliese. Oh, and FYI just in case you’re still wondering—you’re totally enough, now and always.
Original photo courtesy of Itchy and the Nits / Handmade mixed media collage by B.
Garage punk weirdo trio from Gadigal Country/Sydney, Itchy And The Nits released their debut EP last week and we’re totally vibing on it! They’re super fun and super cool – read our interview with Beth, Cin and Eva, give their songs a listen, and find out for yourself.
Who or what first made you want to be in a band?
BETH (drums/vox): I think probably going to gigs and seeing all different kinds of bands I just thought it seemed like it would be fun! Cin and I always planned to be in a band together growing up.
CIN (bass/vox): I played bass in the school band and me and two of my friends who played baritone saxophone and trombone tried to form a band and obviously it was terrible. I guess it always seemed like fun! I thought the girl who played bass in school of rock was super cool.
EVA (guitar/vox): When I was 15 I saved up my dog walking money to buy my guitar and I guess from there it made sense to wanna jam with other people! My friend Charlotte and I were always into punk in school and used to jam together, and I guess I wanted to be like girls I thought were awesome like Kim Deal or Poly Styrene!
Growing up, how did you discover music?
BETH: Me and Cin’s Dad played in bands when we were kids and still does, he played a lot of 60s garage and punk records at home so we always loved that stuff and got really into it as we got older
EVA: Mostly my Dad, when I was five he gave me a Madness CD that I was obsessed with and took to school for show and tell to play ‘One Step Beyond’ hahaha. From there I just grew up into all the same music as him, and then as a teenager kept looking for more.
CIN:: Family who liked cool music! Our parents were always playing punk tapes in the car and me and Beth would get hooked on particular songs and they’d have to spend the whole car ride rewinding the tape manually for us.
How’d you all meet?
BETH: I met Charlotte (who used to play in the band) at work and she introduced me to Eva, We all had similar taste in music and when Eva started working with us we starting jamming together at my house. Cin my sister started playing bass with us about a year later!
EVA: Me and Charlotte have been best friends since we started high school. Charlotte got a job working with Bethany at the ice cream shop, and then I got a job there where I met Bethany and the rest is history… I met Cin through Bethany as they’re sisters hehe.
CIN:: Yeah!
What influences the Itchy & The Nits sound?
At the moment probably Nikki and the Corvettes, The Donnas and The Gizmos!
What’s the story behind the band name?
We had our first gig coming up but we didn’t have a name yet so we had to come up with one quick. We had a song called Charlotte’s Got Nits, so we thought The Nits but then Charlotte and Beth came up with Itchy And The Nits and we thought that was just lovely.
In exciting news, you’re releasing music! Seven songs recorded with Ishka (Tee Vee Repairmann, RRC…) and mixed by Owen (Straight Arrows); what’s five words you’d use to describe it?
Yeah! They’re out now! Maybe fast, happy, silly, outrageous and contagious.
How long have you been working on this release?
We’ve had a lot of the songs for like a year or two and just recorded our favourites with Ishka last June, and we’ve been taking our sweet time putting them out cause we weren’t really sure what we were meant to do with it or how to do any of that kinda stuff! But it’s finally out!
What’s one of your fondest memories from recording with Ishka?
It was relaxed and fun! It wasn’t about getting everything perfect. We recorded on an 8 track and played our parts all at once so it was like doing a mini show. Hanging out with Jen, Ishka and their cat Egg McMuffin is always lovely!
What’s one of your favourites in this collection of songs? Tell us a little bit about it.
Maybe ‘Dreamboat’! We actually wrote it about our shared celebrity crush haha. Also when we play it live now we do a dance in unison during the verses which we accidentally spent almost three hours of band practice perfecting instead of rehearsing the songs.
What would we find each band member doing when you’re not making music?
Cin’s always off on adventures driving around and camping hehe. Eva’s usually going for a swim or bushwalk with her special bird binoculars and Beth is probably watching telly and playing tricks on people
Has anyone in the band got a secret talent or hobby?
BETH: Eva is good at identifying Australian Birds so whenever a bird flies past she can usually say what kind of bird it is and a few interesting facts about it. Cin makes her own ice cream at home and is always making delicious new flavours!
EVA: Beth does amazing paintings and drawings and comic strips. She did the drawings on the album cover, and has made a lyric/comic strip for ‘Crabs’!
What’s been the best and worst show you’ve played? What made it so?
The worst was probably when we played on New Year’s Eve in 2021 I think it was, and the headliner band couldn’t make it and lockdown had just ended. There were about 10 people there including the seccies, the bartenders and the people playing pool up the back. It was probably also the best because we played better than ever since no one was there to see it.
Any pre-show or after-show rituals?
Right after every show just as we’re taking our things off stage we have someone off to the side who has a big hook that catches us and drags us away.
What have you been listening to lately? What’s something you recommend we listen to right now?
EVA: These aren’t so much new discoveries as albums that I am just obsessed with constantly, but I reckon for the last couple years I have listened to the albums Pinky Blue by Altered Images and True Love Stories by Jilted John at least twice a week.
BETH: There’s these YouTube channels- bolt24 hot sounds and Glendoras they upload heaps of different cool 60s stuff so I like checking what’s new on there. Also been listening to The Go Gos and the Delmonas heaps lately!
CIN:: I’ve been listening to the album ‘las canciones de conchita velasco’ a lot lately!
What’s the rest of the year look like for you?
Hopefully doing some more recordings with Ishka! Playing some more gigs and working on some new songs too!
Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie Zine 